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Triumph TR3 - con rod bearings

Any advice/experience with replacement of con rod bearings?

Looking for a source of Vandervell - are there any left?

What is a the best substitute?


Thanks - Jeff
Jeff Rigby

While you're in there, you might as well check the thrust bearings as well.

Vandervell was taken over by someone, can't remember the name. You might search the net for NOS shells. Or maybe TRF has a new source, worth a call. Ebay dot UK is a possibility.

Tom

Here is some TR racer guys wrote on another forum that says it all.

Don Elliott
=======================================

I am trying to get my head around all the bearing discussions so I can order a set for my TR6 but I have a few questions.

Let me see if I have the story straight:

1. Cast lead matrix bearings are better for racing application than sintered aluminium, but hard to find.
2. Cast lead, tri-metal and lead bronze essentially are the same animal, main difference is that they do not use aluminum as the matrix.
3. Vandervell are the preferred choice, but not sure if they are available, John Kipping do you know if Heritage still supplies them ?
4. King makes bearings, of which some are heavy duty applications. John Kipping recommends King heavy duty. TRF supplies King, not sure if they are regular or heavy duty. Art D, did you ever find out if King has the heavy duty version for TRs?
5. There may be a heavy duty Glacier or Vandervell for MGB or Metro Turbo(?) that would fit. I talked to Bob Yarwood, who Babcock said may have a supply of TR Vandervell equivalents, he had none for TR6 and recommended using MGB. He said they were slightly wider but the only mod required was grinding a new place for the locating tab. I assume this is the same approach as John K mentioned.
6. Clevite 77 bearings are trimetal, but only aluminium ones are made for TRs.

Can anyone shed light on this?

Thanks
Mark
72 TR6


I have had some more time plowing through the King Bearing book and need to amend my previous posting. They have 5 series of bearings and the only ones supplied for TR's is the AM series which is the alecular material over steel. Photos of those bearings show a copper colored finish. I will send them an inquiry as to how the AM series differs from the HP (High Performance - competition) series. From one of the brochures, the HP's have some features that are supposed to please the machinist saving the thrust surface on an old crank, but there is bound to be more to the story.
Art D

A search of the web provided me with what might be the answer to "why can't we get the bearings we used to be able to get?" Once upon a time, there were many (competing) bearing companies. Now there's only a few. Dana Corporation bought up Clevite, Glacier, and Vandervell (among others).
Here's a quote from the Dana Corp web site

"Glacier Vandervell North America is a market leader in the design, manufacture and sale of thinwall bearing products in North America. We supply original equipment manufacturers in the automotive, heavy duty and industrial markets.

Additionally, Glacier Vandervell products have strong brand recognition in the automotive aftermarket under the brand name of Clevite. "

So there you have it. If you are the only game in town, then there's no economic reason to make "premium" bearings for limited markets like ours. You can make whatever crap you want to make and we (eventually) will have no choice but to use the sub-standard bearings or park the car.

Hugh Barber
Hollister, CA
'73 TR6

Here's an excerpt from APT's web site :- www.aptfast.com

"At the present moment the bearing situation is a nightmare! One company, Dana Corp, owns most of the major engine bearing manufacturers. These include, Glacier, Vandervell, AE, Clevite.
Some bearings are still available in the tri-metal VP2 type of bearing, these are the Vandervell bearings, however, just because you have a 'box' of Vandervell bearings does not mean that you have VP2!

APT has been buying old stock wherever possible, but this is coming to an end.
So we will supply the best bearings where we can, and this will probably be in the following order of choices:
Federal Mogul/Vandervell, AE, Cleveite, Glacier
The first choice then is the bearings with an Indium overlay, the next is what are commonly called Lead/Bronze or Lead/Copper, lastly the "A" or "SA" material which is what is normally used in all OEM engines, mostly because they are slightly cheaper to make, and they deal with dirty oil better.

Also from Hugh Barber

Jack Drews wrote - To the best of my (current) knowledge, the only makers of TR4 bearings are those supplied by Moss (Glacier aluminum) and TRF (King two-metal).

If you try 149081OE and 149082OE into the Canley search engine and compare the prices to 149081 and 149082 you'll see they are quite a bit more – the OE ones are King non aluminium type. (if any Vandervell ones turned up they would be sold under these numbers as well). Whilst these King bearings may not be as good as original Vandervells (we had no way of testing them), they are better than all aluminium type. The bearings to avoid if you can are manufactured by Glacier, these have a small G in a box on the steel
backing - they charge a lot for them and never honour a guarantee, so why pay the extra?
John Kipping


So much for Canley, they've no Vandervell bearing shells on hand for 6 cylinder TR engines. Any suggestions appreciated.
Kevin /GT6

We have TR-4 rod bearings available in .010" undersize only by ACL. These are trimetal bearings similar in construction to the Vandervell VP2 bearings. They are sintered not cast. The Vandervell VP-2 bearings have a load carrying capacity of around 9,000 psi, the Glacier can tolerate about 5,000 psi and the ACL are in between at around 7,000 psi with better embedability than the Glacier aluminum bearings. This was information that I
was given by a Clevite engineer.

Greg Solow
----------------------------------------------------------------

I just finished checking out the current ACL Bearings catalog and they currently only offer tri-metal bearings for con-rods of the 4 Pot TR motors. The breakdown is as follows:

Spitfire:
Mains: F820 Material
Con-Rods: F820 Material

TR 4-pot for TR2 to TR4's :
Mains: F23 Material
Con-Rods: F780 or F23 Materials (two part numbers)

TR 6-pot (Tr250/6, GT6)
Mains: F820 Material
Con-Rods: F820 Material

MATERIAL CODES
F23 (Whitemetal) = Cast whitemetal, lead based, steel backed.
NOMINAL COMPOSITION: 83% Lead, 15% Antimony, 1% Tin.
F780 (Tri-Metal) = Sintered copper lead, lead plated, steel backed.
NOMINAL COMPOSITION: 74% Copper, 24% Lead, 2% Tin.
F820 (Alutin) = Rolled aluminium-tin, steel backed.
NOMINAL COMPOSITION: 79% Aluminium, 20% Tin.1% Copper


Hugh Barber
Hollister, CA
'73 TR6




Don Elliott

I am contemplating replacing the con rod bearings myself and could use any advice. My current assumption is that the crankshaft has not been reground and that the original journal diameter is still about right. At what diameter would a regrind be required?

Anything to look out for in doing the job?

What lubricant should I use on the bearings and crankshaft during reassembly?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Robin Scott
RS Scott

I am contemplating replacing the con rod bearings myself and could use any advice. My current assumption is that the crankshaft has not been reground and that the original journal diameter is still about right. At what diameter would a regrind be required?

Anything to look out for in doing the job?

What lubricant should I use on the bearings and crankshaft during reassembly?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Robin Scott
RS Scott

This thread was discussed between 21/07/2004 and 23/12/2010

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