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MG TD TF 1500 - Wire Wheel Musing

I am posting what started as an e-mail between Mike Fritsch and myself.

Hi Mike,
I saw your post on the BBS about your recent conversion to wire wheels. I am considering the same (sort of) and have a few questions:
Did you buy a conversion kit?
From Moss or elsewhere?
How did the installation go?
When I bought my car it had Jaguar wire wheels on it. It's a much larger hub than the MG hub. They welded the hub to the drums. The drums are a bit over bored so I was thinking about the Moss kit which comes with new drums.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mort
NJ, USA

Mort 1950 TD Möbius

I have 72 spoke wheels from Dayton, never have any problems with them, they are also tubeless.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Do those Dayton wheels bolt to the existing steel wheel brake hubs or require new hubs?
L Rutt

Here´s the original answer - a bit re-worked.

I converted before the summer, and overall my experience was positive and I´d happily do it again.

Since I´m not the type to take things all ready made and prearranged (guess I need some adventure), I did some shopping aorund in parts over the last 2 years.
The front hubs I got from a pair of used MGA drum brakes that I originally considered fitting in total because they are slightly bigger than the TD drums, but then unfortunately a lot is different, including the brake pipe connector threads. So I resold the MGA drums w/o the hubs (for about the same money I paid for them including the hubs..). MGA front drums are quite readily on the market, since there are many disc brake conversions and the hubs are identical with the TD´s (and also 12 TPI). Also some octagonal wheel nuts (which are theoretically required for road legality in Germany).

Used wire wheels of correct size are readily available and I purchased several lots, trying to get them with tires to avoid having to mount and balance them (which so far was successful and I have a few extra ones...). I decided on painted rims - not as shiny as chrome wheels, but a bit closer to what was used in the old days. Size is 4.5 inch wide and 60 spokes for stability. Only the spare wheel is chrome (I got someone else´s spare for a good price...)

I finally bought 4 new drums and 2 hubs (for the rear axle) from Moss (UK). Also, 4 new 2eared knock off nuts - mainly because there´s lots in the market in 8 TPI but nearly nothing in 12 TPI which is needed for the TD. A bit piecemeal that way, but still significantly less than a complete conversion kit.

Before installation, I sprayed the drums with clear varnish to prevent rusting and mounted the hubs in the drums. Fairly straightforward, except that the holes in the new drums were pretty tight and required some force to insert the bolts.

I replaced the drums one by one with the new ones, re-using the old bearings because they were still good. All went smooth on the back wheels, no trouble pulling off the old drums and putting the new ones on. Fitting the cotter pin for the outer big nut is a bit of a hassle, though (you need be careful with the orientation of the hub against the pin hole when putting the hub on the spline). Also I had to make a tool for the big nut, because that´s nearly impossible to buy and a spanner (which is fine with the steel wheel) does not go inside the wire wheel hub.

One drum on the front decided to make trouble, I had to use a puller to get it off and the inner bearing had to be pulled individually off the axle. The outer (small) bearing refused to move out of the old drum, I suspect the edge of the bearing seat has a slight identation. So I used a set of new bearings for the new front drums, which are fortunately quite inexpensive. The other front drum went smoothly. The bearings sit tight in the drums, so you need to use some kind of press to remove them and fit the new ones. But a vice and some big nuts will do the job.

Adjusting the brakes went fine (and realized me that the previous adjustment on the back brakes was much too loose, the hand brake was on its last tooth).

I had some vibration on the front brakes after installation and adjustment, but that reduced over time and they are up for a re-lining anyway over the winter.

For the spare, I used a 5th splined hub (MGB, that I got cheap from an auction) that simply sits between the 3 original bolts and can be fastened with the original wheel nuts and some big washers. Any hub is ok for that purpose, and that way the original spare wheel carrier can be preserved in its original state (I took the idea from a similar approach somewhere in the archives, however, there the hub was welded to the carrier which I considered too "final").

Will try to take a picture of the spare wheel carrier over the next days.

To keep the nice new knock offs unblemished, I use a big wooden spanner all the time (which works fine, no need for a hammer).

So overall, no major problems, all went smoother than I thought and all the parts were of good quality. Do expect black greasy fingers though, there´s a lot of well used grease in all the bearings !

I do of course get the occasional concern from a purist, but I can live with that, given that people did convert to wire in the 50s as well. And non- experts (which happens to be the majority) prefer wire wheels because they look more "vintage".

Mike Fritsch

Thanks for all the information Mike.  I have not decided whether or not to go ahead with some sort of conversion. 
 
On the pro side are:
1-Wheels out of true.  I have tried to tune the spokes myself but even with the right wrench they are a bear to turn and I started stripping them.  I have been quoted about $150 per wheel by some pros.
2-Knock offs are a mess.  They show all the marks of being beaten on with a sledge hammer.
3-The Jaguar wheel is considerably heavier than an MG wheel.  I've been advised of better handling with the MG wheel.
4-I need a set of tires anyway and this would be a good thing to do at the same time.
5-I believe the existing drums were over bored.  I had to weld an eighth inch tab on the ends of the brake shoes to get the proper adjustment.
6-The outer lip on the drums has been beat severely.  There are big pieces missing.  Obviously a PO did not have a wheel puller and use a hammer on the drum for removal.

On the con side:
$3,300 plus bearings if I need them and who knows what else.

Mort 1950 TD Möbius

Mine came with new hubs from England. I bought them thru British Wire Wheels before they went belly up. I also have converted to MGA disc brakes in the front of the car and love the discs. Finding hubs for the A front was a pain but I got them thru a local dealer.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

here is my car with the hubs/wheels.

Tom Maine (TD8105)

Tom,
Your car looks great. Thanks for the info.
I see you have a strap with fasteners to secure your door. I like that idea and for another reason. I have locking rubber straps on the inside but your straps gave me an idea.
This past summer we were driving on a dreary rainy day and it was very hot out and we were in stop and go traffic. The top was up and side curtains in place. The only real relief from the heat was to hold the doors open when stopped or going slow. I think I will try to make a pair of straps with various holes so we could snap them on and have the doors stay open and get a breeze.
I would like to start a thread and with your permission use your photo. Please let me know if this is ok.
Thanks,
Mort
Mort 1950 TD Möbius

NO problem, as to heat, Lew Palmer on this board has a system using aluminum or plastic corregated duct to allow a breeze to come in. Open doors can be dangerous. I use the strap to keep the door from flying open as it has done in the past.
Tom Maine (TD8105)

To come back to the wire wheel discussion, I wanted to add the pics from the spare wheel carrier as promised.

The cable is for a 3rd brake light that´s fixed to the spare wheel, as I am in the process of eliminating the extra indicators, moving to a relay controlled shared backlight.

Rgds, Mike

Mike Fritsch

To come back to the wire wheel discussion, I wanted to add the pics from the spare wheel carrier as promised

Rgds, Mike

Mike Fritsch

Mort,

You didn't indicate whether your MG is a TD or a TF. As you undoubtedly know the TF came with wires as an option, so up-grading to wires on a TF is good.

However there are those that condsider wires on a TD, Y-Type or even a Z-Type as tacky.

I have seen one of those models with wires, disqualified in a Concours for original cars. It was a ZA in a mid-blue with painted (not chromed) wires, and I thought it looked just stunning!

However, its like the colour of your car, your clothes, the decor in your house; it all boils down to what YOU want, and don't worry about being judged.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Mort,

Sorry; if I had been paying attention, I would have seen that you have a 1950 TD.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

This thread was discussed between 18/11/2011 and 20/11/2011

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