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MG TD TF 1500 - TF Rearview mirror question

Attached are photos of the rearview mirror that came with my TF that I believe is original. However, note that the mounting base is a thin round shaft - not the more common teardrop shaped base with teardrop shaped rubber pad. This had a round rubber pad.
Have others seen examples of this mirror? Is it original or an incorrect replacement? Car is TF-1500
TF8926
Thanks for comments
Rick

R.T. Walsh

Other photo (rear)

R.T. Walsh

Hi RT,

Your mirror is not original - as you say it should have a 'teardrop' pad and no dipping provision. Having said that, with our low sitting position such an accessory would be very useful on our busy roads! I'd keep and use it whilst seeking out an original - others will no doubt tell you whether available replicas are good!

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

That is a "day/night" dim able mirror. It is an aftermarket upgrade.
D. Sander

Hi Rick,

Please do not remove this mirror from your TF1500 as it IS an original one!!

Many TF1500s had a day/night interior mirror fitted by the MG factory.
They were manufactured by both Wingard and Lucas companies.

The mirror body and frame of these mirrors were made out of steel and as such rust was a problem over time.Owners often replaced this mirror with the brass bodied interior mirror used in a TD or a TF1250.

If you decide to re chrome the mirror,you really need to do the preparation work yourself by hand.Get the chromed stripped off by a reputable plater,and dismantle the mirror totally by releasing the two(2) rivets located on the back of the mirror.Any dents,incidental surface corrosion,etc can then more easily be eradicated by jewellers files,varying grades of abrasive paper etc.Avoid heavily abrading the stamped finger tab(has either 'Wingard' or 'Lucas'on it ) and also the Pat No.stamping area on the lower edge of the body.

There are four(4)small tabs on the perimeter of the mirror body which are essential to affixing the frame of the mirror correctly.Often chromeplaters don't realise their importance and are summarily just linished off!

If you access to a buff,you can do the final surface prep.and then take the mirror parts to a chromeplater for plating.Alert the plater that you want any stampings to be retained.Copper,Nickel,and then final chrome plate is the way to go.


I replace the 'rivets',with stainless steel tiny bolts.I turn the head of the bolt down on the lathe to exactly match the head size/shape of the original rivets.From the outside these converted bolts to rivets look like the real deal and of course are far easier to remove if required to in the future.

In Australia,you can have the mirror glass resilvered if need be.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Fascinating! I've seen a few of these, I always assumed they were an accessory item. Were these factory or dealer add on/upgrades?
I think I may have one in a box of parts.
D. Sander

Hi Rob,

As always, interesting info. from you re. the need for careful restoration, esp. where platers are concerned!

As I said in my previous comment I would always keep and restore interesting accessories, but as far as this 'dipping' mirror is concerned, what is the basis for believing that they were fitted at the factory? Are there a number on Australian TFs, perhaps as a result of local legislation? There is a precedent for this in the need in the States for flashing indicators, and their provision on export TDs to the USA.

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

The day/night mirror on TF1500s was a Factory
item,not an accessory or an upgrade.

The curent TF1500 I am restoring was a very original but tatty car before being taken apart.It had the Wingard interior mirror in position.

Another very original untouched TF1500 in Perth also had this mirror.

If you look at Matthew Magilton's TF1500 which is one of the most original cars in Australia,it also has the day/night mirror.

When in England during 1979,I also observed
many TF1500s with this type of mirror.

I have an TF associate in New Zealand who has professionally restored over thirty(30)TFs.
I will contact him re further confirmation of this mirror type.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

My TF 8404 had a Day/Night mirror that was in pretty sad shape. I disassembled the entire thing for clean up and replating. The swivel ball unscrews using a wood padded vice.
The glass was a mess, I found a Ford Ranger pickup mirror had the needed thin tapered glass and my local glass shop cut it down and assembled the thing for $5. More pix available.

Dick Lambert

Rob,

Thank you for the excellent information regarding the
"different" mirror that is on my TF-1500. I had a feeling it was original to the car as virtually everything else on the car was "undisturbed". Yes, it needs plating, but it will be worthwhile to restore knowing that it was original from the factory.

Thanks again

R.T. Walsh
R.T. Walsh

Hi All,

I contacted my TF associate located in New Zealand yesterday and he confirmed our discussion of the interior mirror.

Of all the TFs he has restored,eight(8)were TF1500s.Everyone of them had a day/night
interior fitted before any restoration commenced.He indicated that it was well known in TF circles that the 1500 had a different
interior mirror compared to the 'Desmo'type fitted to TF1250s and TDs.

Dick,great to see you correctly 'attacking'the resto of your 1500s mirror.
They are a precious item.

Rick,a pleasure to help a fellow TFer who is obviously taking the care to get things right.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").

Rob Grantham

I couldn't stand it and had to go out to the garage, in my bath robe, and check the mirror on my TF-1500, TF7157, and it has the tear drop base and no manufacturer's marking. The factory must have used both types.

Cheers - Dennis
DLR Dennis

Funny this came up. I am the original and only owner of TF4592. I do not have a dipping mirror.

However, I did buy a dipping one a few years ago at a flea market, and only yestarday, did I loan it to a chap up, the road to fit on a brand new, fresh restoration of his TC.

Mine looks exaclty like that in Rick Welsh's picture, except that the back of mine is "MG Gold".

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

TF1500 #7613 (I think- it has bee a while) had regular Desmo mirror. At least that was what was on it when it was parked in 1966, and the car had never been apart or restored. Has anyone looked in the factory parts book for TF's? George
George Butz

Interesting, never heard this one before!
No "dip" on my 1500, but not a surprise as my windscreen tag is wrong also. (on outside)
Maybe "upgraded" at the same time.
Something else to look for!
David Sheward

...seems to me that what might have been 'factory' and exported to Australia and other countries, might not have been stock in NA.... the Wols had trafficators in Britain, but not in NA, turn signals were required....?
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

Hi All,

Reading all the above I have a feeling that only some, (mainly Aus/NZ ?) TF 1500s were fitted with a dipping mirror. One of the problems is that there are very few period photos of TF 1500s - I have a Brooklands reprint of contempory road tests, one being a 'Road and Track' one of December 1954.

They used a 'Gough Industries Distributors' car and the standard Desmo mirror can clearly be seen. On the other hand this is clearly a very early demonstrator, the text stating that the '1500' badge was not yet present, thogh the holes on the bonnet were there!.

I've not seen a dipping mirror on the TF 1500s I'm aware of in the UK, but I will now look more carefully for this detail! I suppose we should remind ourselves that factories at the time ran out of supplier components from time to time, and would use alternatives for a period. Or was there a demand, legal or otherwise, from certain export destinations, eg Australia/New Zealand, for dipping mirrors?

Anyone out there got any contempory photos that help?

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

Hi All,

Interesting reading.

Their or may or may not be a trend in TF 1500 chassis numbers relating to the interior mirror query.

The owners of TF8404(USA),TF8926(USA),and TF9177(AUSTRALIA) have stated their cars have the interior day/night mirror.

The owners of TF4592,TF7157,TF7427 and TF7613 have indicated that their cars have the 'standard'1250 type Desmo mirror.

It could be a possibility that the later TF1500s were more likely to have the Factory issue day/night interior mirror? I realise of course that this idea is taken up only from a minute sample!!I will do a search of 1500s in WA to try and establish a link with chassis numbers.

I suspect quite a number of TF1500s with day/night mirrors were shipped to USA as well as Australia and NZ.I purchased a day/night mirror from USA last year.The owner was 'breaking'the entire TF1500 he had owned for some years.

John,I cannot find any info.relating to Aussie Govt.or NZ requirements re the change to day/night mirrors.

Cheers for now.
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").
Rob Grantham

Hi All again,

Further to my previous note, I have now found a period 1955 photo of Pat Moss and co-driver with TF1500 KRX 90, used in rallying and sporting events during 1955, clearly showing a non Desmo mirror, probably the dipping one referred to in this thread. So it was apparantly available for special events, at night etc., where the dipping provision would prove useful.

I wonder if KRX 90 was a very late car and does it still exist? It was first registered in Berkshire, the County Abingdon was then in, (pre local boundary changes!) possibly by the factory. The plot thickens!

Cheers,

John
J C Mitchell

Hi All,

I have done a little research on some of the 'lesser touched'TF1500s in Perth and again discovered the day/night interior in each one!
Also,the MG Car Club of Victoria TF Register
has many TF1500s photographed with this type of mirror.

What is noticeable is that day/night mirror
being discussed here seems to be prevalent in the chassis numbers from 8000 on.Night rallying was not an issue.

I have talked with some TF1500 owners who remember having the day/night mirror on their cars before being sent away for restoration however on the cars return were fitted up with a shiny new TF1250 type mirror!! Ugh!

The TF1500 used by Pat Moss displays the exact,and correct day/night mirror found as Factory standard.

I seem to remember reading some time ago reference to the fact that there were only 244 TF1500s destined for the UK market?? Were these early chassis numbered cars?
The rest of the 3,400 total were exported mainly to USA,Austrlia and New Nealand.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
TF3719("Aramis"),TF9177("Athos").

Rob Grantham

Make that 'Australia'!

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

TF 8281, a 1500 built on 30 November was shipped to California, USA and came with a regular Desmo mirror.
Maybe this was just an Australia thing?

D. Sander

This as been a very interesting post..at least to me.

Another one for "non-dipping" mirror on a 1500.
ebay 220815518178
"An All Original 54k mile Showpiece"
Car is vin "7472" so not in the "8000" range as Rob pointed out.
A theroy I like, as it would make 7427 "correct" LOL!

Of course one needs to take into account this is an ebay auction and although apears to be a mostly unmolested example, some liberties taken are easly spotted under the bonnet!
i.e. Radiator cap, choice of hose clamps, sports coil, some "wrong choices" on paint coloures in there!

Anybody find one (day/night) on a car prior to "8000" yet?
As a post note I would have to go on record that 7427 is not a good example for "orginial" anything!
My "feebay" auction stated "100 point / all orginial".
I knew it was not when I purchased it but I still love her! Had "Izzy" been "as advertized", it would have been the deal of the century. I would consider it a "good example at a fair price" and a driver.
Better now than when I got her and offten cover with bugs ...I'm happy with that!

Cheers,
David
David Sheward

This thread was discussed between 07/07/2011 and 20/07/2011

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