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MG TD TF 1500 - TF Engine removal question

I need to take the engine back out of my TF. Can anyone tell me whether you can take it out without the gear box and without removing the bulkhead footplate?
There's only a 1/4" clearance between the top of the bell housing and the footplate. The engine will have to come forward and up vertically because it won't tilt very far without taking the footplate off.
Will the engine come forward far enough to clear the gearbox drive shaft before it fouls the chassis cross member?

Thanks

AJ
A R Jones

AJ - I have never had to remove the toeboard to remove a TF engine. My experience has been that it is always easier to remove engine and trans together, and the engine must come out at a very steep angle. When I once tried to remove just the engine the input shaft never cleared the block before the sump hit the cross-member.

It takes a fine hand to remove a TF engine without a bend, dent or dimple, especially to the firewall and top curve of the toeboard!

Tom Lange
Bar Harbor, Maine
t lange

Thanks Tom, I think you might be right. The big question is "how long does the gearbox drive shaft protrude past the bell housing flange". There is 3 1/2" clearance between the chassis and the front of the sump to allow the engine to be moved forward. If the shaft is longer than 3 1/2" the gearbox needs to come out with the engine which means taking the floor and bulkhead out.

Does anyone know how long the shaft is?

AJ
A R Jones

Hi AJ,
the lump will come out but it doesn't like it, quite a lot of twisting,pulling and swearing.
Ray TF2884
Ray Lee

photo helps
Ray

Ray Lee

Haveing done some work on a TF in the last few months, I can only wish you well. What a pain to work on. Compared to a TD, there is no comparison. Hard work, sweat and lots of ill words seems to work best on a TF having to do with anything in the engine world. Lots of luck....
Tom Maine (TD8105)

Back in 1958 I removed the engine sans transmission from a TF1500 to fix a stuck open valve problem. Memory says I had to remove the radiator. But the operation was a success. That engine was a winner after I rebuilt it. Was my first "T" series rebuild and I was very pleased with it.
Cheers,
Bob
Bob Jeffers

Thanks guys, it's all ready to come out. Only hope we can fix the bearing leak at the second attempt.

AJ
A R Jones

What is the groups feeling on the "worth" of removing the wings / side panels first?
I have had my engine & tranny out of the car twice in 10+ years of ownership. Both times with wings, panels, radiator, removed and did not find the work too bad. Never tried it the "other" way ...but don't think I would want to. On the last go~round I drove the car for several hundred miles with wings off to make sure all was well before putting back together.
Made an interesting looking "rat-rod".
David Sheward

Just completed the task you are are contemplating today.

All the side panels, grill radiator and frongt engine mount bracket removed prior to commencement. All ancillaries stripped from the motor.

I had tried to remove the sump with the motor insitu to diagnose where my major oil leak stemmed from. Sump didnt have sufficient clearance at the front cross member therefore it was a case of remove the engine. Engine removal was simple as the sump dropped away once the motor was lifted allowing the engine to move forward to allow the clutch pressure plate to clear the gear box spigot. During the process I had the gearbox supported on a trolley jack and the engine slung so it hang off the horizontal.

OK now came the hard bit getting a fully assembled engine back in the chassis. Lot of hard grunt and "blue air" however it can be done with extreme care. Engine had to be slung precisely horizontal, gear box jacked up as far as the body work would facilitate. I found as I was working alone a piece of wood placed between the end of the gear box spigot and the clutch pressure plate to be beneficial in the early phase of lowering the motor into position. Once the engine is partially lowered it is imperative that the gearbox spigot be inserted into the pressure plate fingers as the engine does not have sufficient room to clear the spigot and the front cross member without doing this. MUCH CARE NEEDS TO EXERCISED as many a mechanic have bent the gear box spigot during this process, Ive yet to prove I havent done likewise.

As others have advised I think transmission and engine removal as a unit might be a preferable solution.
G Evans

Ray,

Did you have to remove the footplate/firewall? With the footplate in place there is little room to tilt the engine from the horizontal.

I managed to get my sump off with the engine in situ. But removing the sump is an option if the engine won't move far enough forward to clear the gearbox without tilting it up.

Tomorrow's the day!

AJ
A R Jones

As I recall, the steering column had to be unhooked with the 3 bolts that go into the steering gear flange in order to clear the oil pump. In addition, putting the transmission in 4th gear and then removing the shifter extension assembly is easier than trying to get the shift lever out. This is if you are also pulling the transmission. It is a 2 person job to pull the thing and it will stretch your profanity vocabulary to the limit. It's one of those things where a chassis about 1 inch longer and a bout an inch on the firewall would have made the job a breeze, as the angle of attack for the lump is really steep. Mike
MW Davis

But; can the engine/gearbox assembly be lifted horizontally up and forwards when the radiator is removed? Is the gap between the fenders wider than the widest part of the engine/gearbox assembly?

Regards,

Jan

TF1500

Jan Kristoffersen

It has to be drastically tilted to get it out. The sump is too deep to go straight forward. Radiator at least has to come out. I've not removed the side panels, bit it would make it nicer.

Alex
Alex Waugh

Well we did it and it was relatively easy.

For the record. There are no wings on the car. I fired the engine up before I fitted the wings. As you have to take the radiator off I think it might be possible to spring the wings far enough apart to get the engine out.

I removed the radiator, the starter motor, dynamo, the carbs/ex manifold (although I don't think this is necessary), the exhaust as far as the silencer box, the engine steady and the front mountings. You need to remove the rubber front mounting after the engine has been lifted a little as the nuts don't come off the bolts otherwise.

We took the weight off the engine and slid it forward until there was 1/4" between the front of the sump and the chassis. Put a jack under the gearbox. When you lift the engine watch bell housing doesn't damage the footplate, there's very little clearance and when you move the engine forward watch the break pipes!

The engine will move forward until the sump touches the chassis.The drive shaft isn't completely free of the engine at this stage so it won't lift out vertically. It looks as though you are stuck at this stage but tilting the front of the engine up allows you to get the front of the sump over the chassis without having to lift the gearbox any higher. You have to do a bit of twisting to get the oil pump and the starter mounting flange past the chassis struts.

My car is RHD so the steering shaft stays on.

Hope that helps someone else.

Getting it back in will be another story!

AJ
A R Jones

This thread was discussed between 18/12/2011 and 21/12/2011

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