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MG TD TF 1500 - Rivets for the Running board Rubbers.

Hope I am not wearing out my welcome.

Before I got the fenders painted I removed the rubbers and holders from the running boards.
I have a new set that I got from (I think) Abingdon about 30 years ago.

The old rivets seem to be Aluminum.

They have an (approximately) 3/16 diameter. They seem to have a smaller head that normal commercially available rivets. about 0.270 vs 0.340

I could buy standard ones and turn the head down. But before I make a project is there a simpler way to go?

The old ones are flat headed and there is a slight countersink in the old metal. The Abingdon metal appears thinner and may not want flat headed rivets.

I don't find, or can't find them at Moss. I did not check Abingdon however.


I also note that while sticking Aluminum in a hole in steel, albeit a painted hole is a terrible idea from corrosion considerations it does not seem to have been an issue.

Thanks again for the help.
JAB Benjamin

Rivets? All my cars have had very small bolts and nuts in BA size. I've always cleaned them up and re-used them I suppose pop-rivets would work, but it somehow goes against the grain...

Tom
t lange

That would be a lot easier to assemble, These look to be about BA-2 size. They are rivets however.
Are your flat head and what material are they made of?
JAB Benjamin

Flat head machine screws in mine
Bruce Cunha

...you will never.....NEVER....see those rivets again.... I used aluminum ones from the hardware store and was very careful putting them back in...(you know how those guns 'pop' and sort of bounce).....then the rubber pressed in and there you go....
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

I think the factory used rivets and the aftermarket offered screws and nuts. The screws and nuts do make it less convenient to clean the underside of the running board as they catch the cleaning cloth and rip it to shreds (along with an occasional chunk of skin)

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

My TD's strips had never been removed and were attached with solid aluminum rivets. Some years ago I found that pop-riveting would slightly bend the strip, and small screws/nuts worked much better. Brass or stainless would be best? George
George Butz

Photo of underside of original running board rivet

George Butz

Photo of original rivet inside the strip. The head is very, very thin and flat.

George Butz

While on originality, this is the original green paint. Don't know what year TD this one came from however.

George Butz

Take a look at this site http://www.hansonrivet.com/w01.htm

This gives all different type of rivet heads. I would suggest the 100 degree countersunk head solid rivet. Thats what I plan to use.

Butch Taras
VMG
R Taras

Butch,

The 100 degree countersunk head is an aviation rivet that only reaches its best holding power (read that no looseness later on) with a countersunk hole. Do your math first to determine if you have enough depth in the first layer for a full countersink, and carefully control your depth of the countersink by controlling the diameter of the outer edge of the c'sink.

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Dave Braun,

Wow, You lost me. What rivet would you use? Also, What hand tool to do the job?

Thanks, Vince
V DiGiallorenzo

Butch and Dave:
I believe the 78 degree head is a better choice and here is why.
The thickness of the original head is about 0.070". Its hard to measure but thats is about as thin as I get I have meassured up to 0.080
Now the diameter of the heads on the original rivits are around 0.280 to 0.290.
The diameters on the present rivits re in the range of 0.340". They wont even fit into the newer frames I have, The widht of the old frames are about 3/8 the new ones are 5/16.

Well I have a little machine shop so modifications are my middle name. I bought 100 aluminum rivits. 78 degree heads and 1/2 long. That was the shortest length the vendor I found had in the 78 degree head. I chose 1100 alloy which is almost pure aluminum and very soft. I maybe should have used a different alloy.
I thinned down the head on my lathe to 0.070 and the head is about 0.3" wide. bit larger than the original but usable. Thats the advantage of the 78 degree heads. The old heads seem to have a bit sharper angle, maybe 70 degrees. I have tried to change the angle on a few and it seems to help with the fit
I dont have the correct length yet. I cut one down to 1/8, 5/32, and 3/16. Using an old frame and some blanks I cut out of 18 gage steel wih a 13/64 hole drilled in them (that hole may be a bit large)as test pieces. At this point the 5/32 length seams best. It holds well It peens, using the flat side of a ball peen hammer, very easially. It just does not extend below the test piece as far as the originals.

I am still working on setting them and getting the length correct.

I may order up another package of these with a different alloy.

I attached a picture of the peened side of the 5/32 rivit I can also show pictures of the front side of these and of the original.

Hope this helps.


JAB Benjamin

Here is a pix of the modified head.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/eeengineer1/head-thinned-angle-sharpene.jpg?t=1310608409

and here is a picture of the head installed in the old frames,

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/eeengineer1/156-deep-rivet.jpg?t=1310608732

JAB Benjamin

Why not the countersunk split? That would give you the ability to remove it easier if needed?
Bruce Cunha

I bought my strips and bolt head kits from Moss a while back. I haven't installed them yet so I went in the cupboard and pulled them out to check them over. The strips are drilled and countersunk. The bolt kits are like mini stove bolts (pan head with a four sides under it). Makes no sense whatsoever, putting a square pan head screw in a countersunk round hole. I'll just get some 3/16 A aircraft countersunk rivets or Bs or ADs.
Mike

Mike Hart (52 TD 16378)

I considered buth "pop" rivets and flat head screws.
I did not think the "Pop Rivets" were "proper"
What drove me to Aluminum rivits was the fact that the ones I took out showed very little corrosion.

True my TD was only on the road for 19 or 19 years but I believe that 14 or 15 of those years was in Massachusetts. The bumper bolts were very corroded and were all the square headed nuts that are on the wood pannels

I would not want to use steel screws and nuts. What about brass screws and nuts.

Well AL is more active but it rapidly self passivated by forming a very robust oxide. With brass I there there is a srong couple to form corrosion.

So I decided on Aluminum
JAB Benjamin

That sounds like a plan. Machining them is no problem for me either (I make a variety of parts for mg's). I'm just going to polish up the strips for my Y rather than getting new ones. I wonder if the replacement rubber strips are the correct width for the old channels or the new since they, as you say, are different widths. As to length I think that I will just push the rivet thru then nip off the excess length then set them.

Butch
R Taras

This thread was discussed between 10/07/2011 and 14/07/2011

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