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MG TD TF 1500 - Engine Out???
| OK. I finally got the engine running sweetly with 75psi oil pressure. I'm sure the pressure will settle down with a few miles behind it. However, I had oil dripping out of the "split pin" hole at about a drip every 4 secs. Found I had put too much oil in the sump! Drained a litre (ish) of oil out and it's now to the 1/2 full mark on the dip stick although I have no idea if it's the correct dip stick for the car. It looks like the MG dip stick with the MG emblem on the knob, but!! Tried again and seemed much better with just a minor weep from the split pin hole. Ran for 1/2 hr and only got 4 small drips. Problem solved! I thought the repair we made to the bodged main seal aftermarket kit the PO did must have worked. Stopped the engine and returned a while later to find oil drips from the pin hole at a drip every 1/2 minute or so for about 45 mins resulting in a sizeable antisocial pool on the floor. Not good! Anyone have any suggestions as to why it should be leak free when running but leak when its shut down? AJ |
| A R Jones |
| The scroll is doing it's work!! There is a scroll that is supposed to bring the oil back into the engine as it's running. This sometimes gets overwhelmed if there is a lot of blowby. But when the engine is running it works pretty well. When the engine stops, the leak starts (Or gets worse). Presume this is oil that was in the galleries finding the lowest level. Cheers, Bob |
| Bob Jeffers |
| Bob So you're saying that a fist-sized pool of oil, under the engine, after every run, is proper? I can't imagine that the factory designed an oil leak into the lump... If you're right, I'm wasting a huge amount of time, and effort, (and money), to stop the leaks on mine. One of the main reasons that "Rocky" , my '52 is now in bits, all over the garage, was to stop those annoying leaks.... I did manage to stop the leaks on my two previous "B's", and I'm hoping to do the same on the XPAG. Edward |
| E.B. Wesson |
| 75 psi sounds a touch high. You may want to check your pump and see if someone shimmed the relief spring. |
| Jim Northrup |
| I cant remember ever seeing and XPAG that did not leak, especially from the rear. The Archemedes seal will always leak to some degree. These aint modern engines. Just remember the rule of thumb," if it aint leaking, its out of oil". |
| Tom Maine (TD8105) |
| It is like the old adage says - TDs are like puppies - they are cute and leave little puddles on the floor :). |
| A. R. Todd |
| Edward If the oil dropping on the ground after you have stopped the engine bothers you, a quick fix is to install a small Drip box that will catch these drips. Just remember to empty it from time to time. They are available to buy or you can make one and they just bolt to the lower bolt that fastens the bell housing to the block. Maybe not the permanent fix you are looking for but certainly inexpensive and works well. Brian |
| Brian Smith (1950 TD3376) |
| IMO, the most important item is to make the main bearing clearance .001" or less, the block may have to be line bored for this to be achived. Then the slinger which will have an interferance fit, after line boring, must be hand fitted with a bearing scraper. No lip seal needed. |
| Len Fanelli |
| Is someone out there making drip boxes on a commercial basis? Even though my TF is not anywhere near Torrey Canyon it is not OK to spoil a friends fresh asphalt or cobble stone driveway with SAE 20-50 even in smallish amounts. Regards, Jan |
| Jan Kristoffersen |
| AJ, This is by far the best way to stop a puddle forming on the floor,,,,,,just as Brian stated above,,, 
|
| STEVE WINCZE |
| Jan, Someone in the UK was making them as I got mine on UK e-bay. It was very similar to Steve's but did not have such a fancy spigot. Regards, Jim |
| James Neel TD28423 |
| Re: high oil pressure. Have you checked that a PO has not inserted an oil restrictor pin into the oil feed to the head at the point where the pipe is connected to the head. It's easy to check, just detach the pipe at the journal and probe the hole, making sure that you don't lose your probe of course! 75psi strikes me as being a bit on the high side, but it's a long time since I played with XPAGs and my memory might be a bit shaky. |
| J Barnacott |
| When the oil is good and warm and the engine is shut down, you can expect a spot about the size of a half dollar. Mine is good, Usuaully about nickle sized puddle. Remember, they are not leaking oil, they are marking their turf. -David |
| D. Sander |
| I've had 75-80 psi at startup in Lazarus since the rebuild about 10,000 miles ago. I'm delighted with the readings and can think of no reason to mess with the relief valve. Bud |
| Bud Krueger |
| Steve Wincze---your solution is excellent---is it homemade or storebought?------ |
| TCK Tom |
| I had a look on ebay Steve & James and couldn't find anything like the catcher you have. Can you remember any more details about who you bought it from ? Cheers Dave MG TF 1955 |
| Dave Moore |
| There is a known issue where the rear drain tube can prevent oil from draining quickly enough at shutdown, and the "extra" ends up running out the rear scroll. Shortening the tube 1/2" usually solves the issue. |
| Steve Simmons |
| Archive 'Td oil leak' . It was designed by Guenter Kallies. Bud |
| Bud Krueger |
| http://www.mg-tabc.org/techn-up/drip_pan.htm I'm having one made for my TD now. I borrowed one made from these plans and it worked well. Will advise how it comes out. George |
| George Butz |
| George, Our TF needs that badly, about what's it going to cost you, and can you get 2 made at once? thanks, Al |
| A W Parker |
| Hi Guys I ended up making my own by just measuring up, transferring to a cardboard template and using that to mark the metal and then folding up the box and welding the corners. I believe that they are available in England and if memory serves it may have been one of the Edneys who provide them. I am pretty sure that I saw it advertised in an MGCC magazine within the past year. Thinking about it again the Edneys appear to provide a really good product in the engine rebuilding area so maybe it was someone else. Sorry I can't be more precise for you. Making you own is not too difficult and is very inexpensive. Brian |
| Brian Smith (1950 TD3376) |
| No problem with the pump spring. It's all standard. I checked. I'm now coming to believe that this engine has suffered this problem for a long time. When I bought the car there was an 8 month old bill for £2000 for various engine and gearbox work. One of the items was for fitting as Moss seal to the main bearing. Shortly after taking the car home I discovered a SERIOUS leak. It dripped oil for an hour after shut down leaving a pool a foot in diameter. I think the PO got fed up with it when he'd spent that much and couldn't solve the problem. Interestingly I didn't notice any leaks when I tested it! Engine out and the builder found the seal had not been fitted properly and was leaking. He had to make a new seal housing as the holes for the Moss seal were in the wrong place. We still have a leak but now the pool is only 4" dia! He couldn't believe that the seal was leaking so we pulled the sump last night thinking it might be the cork gasket. We built up the gasket and put it back together. Still leaked. I took it apart again this morning to find the cork gasket hadn't sealed properly. Moral - don't put sumps back on after midnight!!! Still working on it, watch this space. Try this http://www.mgbits.com/contents/en-uk/d223_03.html At the moment mine leaks too much for one of these. AJ |
| A R Jones |
| Bud, Thanks for finding the original maker!! I searched for a while but couldn't find the post... SPW |
| STEVE WINCZE |
| Hi, I cured my drip by making up my own rear pan seal.I cut two strips of composite jointing and glued them together tiewrapped to a spare rear bearing cap,I made it slightly longer than the one from the gasket set. When removed from the cap it retained the curve,dont forget it has to overlap the sump gasket.It still has the occasional drip but not enought to worry about. Ray TF2884 |
| Ray Lee |
| You have now convinced my that the purchase of the Moss rear seal was a complete waste of money....No sense in spending many hours making it fit, if it doesn't work.... I hope they will take it back.... I guess that the Speedi-Sleeve won't help either, so it's going back as well. Edward |
| E.B. Wesson |
| George, If whoever you have making this for you is inclined to go into business there are probably lots of us that would buy this unit. Would appreciate any info or contact. Thanks, Mort |
| Mort 1950 TD1851 Möbius |
| I got my drip pan at a GOF. Don't remember who was selling them but my memory says he was Canadian and well known. I think I remember $60.00 as the price. A really well made unit. Cheers, Bob |
| Bob Jeffers |
| Returning the seal retainer, and Speedi-sleeve and making my own "drip" box, using the plan in this thread....Since I can't weld aluminum, I'm making mine out of steel sheet.... I'm not used to doctoring the symtom, instead of the disease...But practicality wins this time. I'll post an image of the box, in another thread. Edward |
| E.B. Wesson |
| I'll let you know the quality, fit, price, etc. when I get it back. Maybe next week. George |
| George Butz |
| Edward, what gave you the idea that the Moss seal doesn't work? It works fine if set up correctly. Of course there are no guarantees it will work for you since every installation is different, but there are many of them out there that are drip free. |
| Steve Simmons |
| George, you have mail. thanks, Al |
| A W Parker |
| Steve A.R.'s post about the Moss seal, and several other posts about problems associated with the installation, and whether or not the holes line up properly, and then having to modify the rear-main bearing cap, as well as having to modify the crank, and even the retainer itself, convinced me that I don't want to go through that , and find that it may not work....Especially since this engine was rebuilt by a previous owner, less than 4000 miles ago. I'm not in a financial position to have a machine shop rebuild an engine, and have always done my own work... So rather than take a gamble, it will be a whole lot simpler, to just add a drip pan. Edward P.S. I'm selling the un-opened kit, and Speedi-Sleeve, in another thread. |
| E.B. Wesson |
| Fair enough, but until now I've never heard of anyone having to modify a crank, or finding that the holes in the adapter didn't line up. Theoretically the holes have to line up because the holes in the block were drilled with a jig that never changed throughout production. The only commonly required modification, and it's only needed on some engines, is to take a small amount of material off the back face of the rear bearing cap. Otherwise it's a bolt-in item. The Speedi-Sleeve is only required if the crank flange isn't smooth, or if the seal doesn't sit fully on top of it. This is more as an FYI for others who may rear this thread in the future. |
| Steve S |
| Steve I have used Speedi-Sleeves on both of my "B's" , with great success... A whole lot easier, since you don't have to remove the flange, and risk damaging the sleeve. I would not put in a modern seal, on an old engine without one....Even Moss says to use the seal, in their instructions with the kit. I hated to send the thing back, but my "intuition" told me that I was over my head, with this fix. Edward |
| E.B. Wesson |
This thread was discussed between 14/12/2011 and 19/12/2011
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