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MG Midget and Sprite General - Works midgets

Now i am starting to get confused

I tought
6GRX and sister car ???? were 1/4 eliptic 1275 alluminium boddy'd
And raced in period (1965?) on at least one ocasion by Timo Mäkinen and Rauno Aaltonen and ???

Can any one confirm/ fill in the ??? and direct me to a good source of info as "Mighty midgets & special sprites" does not realy reference this.
Onno Könemann

Steve Luscombe the competition car registrar of the MGCC Midget register has an aluminium bodied ex Special Tuning Midget now in Modsports spec

Perhaps he can assist?

JB
James B

1965 Sebring 12hrs both Makinen and Aaltonen were in Sprites so not that. At the Bridgehampton 500 that year they drove a Midget each, these are quoted in The Works MGs (Allison / Browning) as 'Sprites rebadged as MGs' so could be this? I cannot find pics with registrations.
David Smith

maybe Tom Coulthard knows?
David Smith

David
That info i found as well and as far as i know these were in deed allu boddy'd 1275's but i can not find any pics with registrations.
And i can not find if they had wind up windows (as 6GRX has)

JB
As far as I know those cars came from a batch of alloy body's at that cam out of the works at the end of the 60's
Sold to privateers due to lord stokes closing the competition department
Onno Könemann

Onno do you have access to a copy of the book BMC Competitions Department - 25 years by Bill Price?
David Smith

The Bridgehampton Two are in Bill Price's Appendix, but not mentioned in the text sadly.

The cars were entered as 1098s and I would be surprised if they were quarter-elliptic:

http://www.racingsportscars.com/covers/_Bridgehampton-1965-09-19ae.jpg

I would expect them to have competed under the Homologation No 162 which dates from 11 Apr 1964 - a Midget Mk II of "steel/aluminium unitary construction" with a 45DCOE, an LSD and 132.08mm (5.2") rims.

David - I'm sorry to say I've never noticed that note of Peter's that they were built at Warwick (They're a bit late for me - the music died at the end of 1962, as far as I'm concerned). I should have taken more notice when 6 GRX was 'doing the rounds'.

The Healey entries at Sebring in 1965 were the 64 Sebring & Le Mans car 770 KNX and the first of the 'Streamliners' DAC 952C (which is in "mighty Midgets ..." - but only because I told John about it!).

AFAIK the Bridgehampton cars didn't race anywhere else, but were sold off in the States for 'hard currency'.

Tom
Tom Coulthard

David
No i do not it is now on the wish list.

Tom
Thanks for the info.

Now it is more of a question

What is 6GRX?

I know i should have taken more time to talk to John Palmer last year silverstone.
He mentioned a sister car and racing with Timo.
Tough i was slightly distracted as we were bussy taking pots in the first race for car and drivers (not me driving just a help)
Onno Könemann

What is 6GRX?

Er ... the car Rauno Aaltonen raced at Bridgehampton. Little is known about the other car.

Tom
Tom Coulthard

Standard (shape) bodies - this pic of the Aaltonen car is from Tony Wilson-Spratt's excellent site on the WSMs:

http://www.wsmcars.com/Donington08/Race3FULL.jpg

Tom
Tom Coulthard

IIRC 6GRX was on the MGCC stand at Stoneleigh MG Spares show a couple of years ago (three or even four, maybe) Also IIRC it had recently been 'found' in the USA and brought back to UK and then fully restored (over-restored IMO - it looked like a 100% fresh build)
David Smith

It was at the MGCC do at Silverstone, too -the owner being a prominent MGCC person. Quite agree with the way it looked, but that seems to be what so many people want. It may have acquired some patina by now, as it has been raced a bit.

I would have looked at it much closer if I'd realised it had been a Sprite prepared at Coten End - wonder what identity it carries!

Tom
Tom Coulthard

Sorry mis understood your first post.

At least 6GRX is racing and not just on display.
That is more important to me than the look of the restoration(though i am inclined to agree)
It still look fresh out the box and has no battle scars.

It might indeed have 1/2 eliptic springs now that i look at my pics again.
It does however now run a 1275 cooper block (tappet covers) an i've been told it did in period as well.

Could the info leaflet of the race be incorrect or would it be a later addition?
Onno Könemann

Ono
6GRX is semi-elliptic, I have looked underneath at the rear axle set up on several occasions.
Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

I believe the two Bridgehampton cars were un-registered when they went out in 65, and that Dave S acquired the 6 GRX plate for it when it came back over from the states. (It being very close to the works registrations of the period). The 1293 engines used in the race were development Cooper S engines, hence the tappet covers, and were used as the class split was at 1300cc. Again the chassis were Mk 2 Midget semi-eliptic cars with aluminium panels to get them as close to the 578kg homologated weight. (FIA 184). Its interesting that the Mk 2 Midget FIA form, although listing 1098 engine, lists the valve sizes as early Cooper S!). I believe the cars were entered as sports prototypes and not production sports which allowed the use of the 1293 engine?. Please dont take this as gospel, as its only what I've gleaned through Bill Price's book and talking to various other enthusiasts. (It looks like I'm not the only one doing a 6 GRX replica!!)
regards
Kim
Kim Dear

Thanks

Not building one yet as i have plenty of work on my "32 D type left.
But the light body and 1293 engine are imho the only way to be competative in fia appK racing ( have fun with the B's)
A 1100 could do as well but i am afraid it wout require a rebuild every other race.......
Onno Könemann

<<The 1293 engines used in the race were development Cooper S engines>>

The engines would surely have been XSP units built by Eddie Maher and his team at Morris Engines - who had been building inline A-series race engines since 1959. It seems unwise to extrapolate from any engine the car has in it now (or had, 'as found' even).

'FIA 184' appears to be papers for an E-type Jag??

The entry list seems quite a good indication that the Midgets were not entered as prototypes, since they are listed in the (homologated) GT class. And of course it was by no means unknown for works cars to be over-capacity.

Tom
Tom Coulthard

just for clarity the Dave S mentioned in Kim's post who has 6GRX, is not me (!) but Dave Saunders.
David Smith

(And there was me being careful not to 'out' the owner - though that info is all over t'internet - and tactfully not mentioning that reversed GRX registrations were never issued in period!)

Ah well ...

Tom
Tom Coulthard

...and of course if it *was* a rebadged Sprite then it might have been better to go for an AC or NX registration...
David Smith

I have some pictures that I took a little while ago of the underside of 6GRX if you still need evidance.
It's a semi eliptic car.

Mark.
M T Boldry

Thanks Mark
But i hav found my own pics of 2 years ago when it stood in the register tent.
Indeed a 1/2 eliptic car
Onno Könemann

Sorry, my typo, meant FIA162. Maybe Dave Saunders has got the definitive history/development of the car?. I've been going through all my own literature trying to find the article about the race, but cant find it anywhere!. (Is'nt this the race when some american club racers were initially entered, but were so slow during practise the BMC management had the flying Fins do the whole race?).
Kim Dear

This thread was discussed between 28/02/2011 and 03/03/2011

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