Tyre sealant perm vs temp. Discuss | MG Midget and Sprite General

British-Cars.org

Welcome to the DMR Site for British Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite General - Tyre sealant perm vs temp. Discuss

I've seen many comments on here about not carrying a spare.

I've been looking at dumping my spare and wondered about tyre sealants.

Pre-puncture sealants vs Post-puncture sealants

The AA reckon that Pre-puncture sealants that live in the tyre for the life of it, are dangerous (because you don't always know you have a puncture), and only temp sealants should be used, prior to a conventional repair.

It is also said that these "permanent for the life of the tyre" pre-puncture type of sealants, damage the tyre in the eyes of tyre fitters, and that they will refuse to repair a tyre that has this stuff used in it.

The post-puncture sealants are said to be safer (because you always know you have a puncture), and do not damage the tyres, and fitters are happy to repair tyres that have this stuff in them.

So what's the concencus here?

Who uses which of the above?

Lawrence Slater

That's weird, post once get two entries. Is it a BOGOF?

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
I have carried a can of the "after puncture" sealant in my car instead of carrying a spare, since around 1994. But I couldn't tell you how well it works as I haven't needed to use it!

When did you last have a puncture?

Guy

Guy

Hi Guy,

Unfortunately I seem cursed with punctures. Must be a lot of nails/screws where I live. But I had the same in London when I lived there.

I used to get punctures in my company car too. I think I must be unlucky. I remember 1 month when I got 3 punctures on the way to work round the M25. Boss wondered if I was doing it deliberately as an excuse for being late to work. LOL.

But I reckon on average I get 1 every year or so over the last 20 years. My spare gets used enough to justify carrying one.

Having said that, I haven't had a real puncture (only a bead leak from a poorly seated tyre fixed for free) for a couple of years now.

So I would like the extra space in the boot now.

How do you know/test that your can of repair/sealant will still work?

I had a small can of fire extinguisher in the car for years, then one day I needed to use it, (luckily not on my car), I found it had depressurised over the years and nowt came out.

How long do the tyre sealants remain active for when still in the can?

Lawrence Slater

On a related topic. Do the after puncture ones work with tubed tyres. I have wire wheels and consequently must run tubes. I have heard that the puncture sealants don't work on tubes, but the blurb on the can says they do. So does anyone with tubes have any experience. Not carrying a spare would obviously free up much more boot space.

Bernie.

b higginson

Lawrence of course you get puntures you got those ancient tyres :)

I'm same a Guy I've not carried a spare for 20 years just cans of after-punture that never get used and passed on with the car

what I do carry in the boot is a foot pump and reliable gauge

I've had 3 puntures in 20 years, twice when I've been more than 40 miles from home and one use of the footpump each time got me safely home, the other time I was about a mile from home when I realised so very easy to get home

mind I do look after my tyres by replacing them at the appropriate time :)

fire extinguishers have to be checked once a year - it's like servicing so can be ignored by some :)

sorry I just had to get those digs in :)

I'm not with my car at the moment so can't tell you how long the cans last

Nigel At

Just had my company car serviced. The "Tyre Repair Set" is date stamped and checking it is part of the service tick box list. It expires 09/13 apparantly. Thats a 4 year shelf life.
Perhaps it could be added to a full 36,000 mile service Nigel? :)

Mark

M Crossley

So far then nobody here has actually used one of these sealants in anger.

If you haven't had a pucture that's great, but what happens one dark night, when you finally do get one and the can won't emit it's contents, and you haven't got a spare?

That's my concern.

Nigel, be fair now, :), I did say that I had punctures on my company car as well. I didn't pay for those tyres, and hence they were pretty new. And anyway, no matter how old/new a tyre, a nail is no respecter of brand new. :)

Also you can't service the sealed pressure type fire extinguishers. Mine was a little over a year old when it failed to go off. No pressure.

If you have a slow puncture, yes a foot pump will work, but if it's a regular, air loss pretty quickly type of puncture, you'll be pumping for nothing, as the air will escape as fast as you put it in.

So how about the sealants? How long do they stay active in the can? How long before they won't expel from the can? Should you buy a new can every year?

Yes according to the blurb, tubes can be repaired, but how does a sealant seal a slit caused by a nail? A hole I can understand, but a slit/tear?

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
checking things is part of a service :)

Mark gave you the answer on the life of the can as you were typing (happens to me a lot)

a foot pump has been enough for me for 20 years with nice soft, reasonable age and tread depth tyres :)

but if your expierence is different fair enough carry the can, foot pump and reliable gauge, that's what I do but so far I've never had to use a can

I've also not carried a jack or wheel brace so my bridges are burnt

spot on that the can needs checking, certainly as part of six-monthly services :)

it's the same as many spare tyres that are carried in classics many are not checked so usually totally deflated, many are in poor condition and/or illegal so in effect useless same as an ineffective can

I'm surprised you're such a worrier, do you need the extra space to carry more tools and parts just in case you might need them :)

Nigel At

I have tried to use a can in anger, but the results were very poor.

My MGF had a slow puncture for about a year or so and required pumping up every 2 weeks.

However the day came when it would only manage a couple of days without being pumped up so action was needed.

The tyre was about down to the wear markers and so was about due for change which meant nobody would repair the puncture.

I decided to use a can of repair spray that I purchased from Asda.

I noted the tyre had a nail in it in the centre of the tread and the instructions on the can suggested that the item should be removed which I did.

I followed precisely the instructions on the can which was to invert the can and press the trigger.

A small amount of gunge entered the tyre (clear plastic tube from can) a little bit of air pressure exited the hole where the nail had been and that was it absolutely nothing tyre still flat and still punctured. I then tried to help it by using my compressor but it was useless. The only positive was that I had tested this at home and not relied upon it to repair a puncture sometime around midnight in the south of France after a lovely meal!!

I keep meaning to send the can back to the manufacturers but as yet I have not!!

Bob Turbo Midget England

why would you dump the spare? If you need the boot space then fix it to the bootlid.

David Smith

you dump the spare if for past 20 years you've never needed it, but each to their own

it also means you can dump the jack and wheel brace

dumping all three means you have more room in the boot to get luggage in for touring holidays and that you’re carrying a bit less weight, although that's a bit of a mute point for someone like me who's heavily overweight

it also means you don't have to buy a fifth wheel and tyre if you've changed your wheels

carrying a spare on the boot lid makes it unnecessarily very heavy and cumbersome and it would probably need extra support

if you’ve got wire wheels you may probably have to carry a spare but not with steel or ally

Nigel At

My two pennorth if I may.I bought a brand new Clio last year.It could be ordered with an emergency jollop pack or a full spare wheel and jack kit,at no extra charge.I had to wait an extra 6 weeks for a spare wheeled car to arrive as it seems Renault prefer to sell with the jollop pack.I firmly believe after several centuries of driving and always with an MG that only a fool would drive around with no spare.I ordered a spare because firstly,I had heard the jollop doesn't work,period,and that in any case they are "lifed" at around 4 years when you have to buy a new one.Quite simply,what is the problem with having a well cared for spare wheel/tyre? Just try having a puncture at 2 am( probably in the rain) and the jollop doesn't work or you don't carry a pumped up spare.Whodyagona do?

Not worth the hassle-carry a real spare wheel.If you are worried about lack of carrying space in your Midget or B, just go on holiday with squashy bags crammmed in everywhere,Been there ,done it.No problem.

Now I get mon anorack.

M Blencowe

ISTR that it used to be the case that if you had a puncture, the AA/RAC etc., would not assist if you did not have a spare wheel.

I used to carry a can of 'tyreweld' for my trailer, as it had a strange wheel size and I had difficulty locating a spare. The one time I tried to use it, the complete tread had come off the tyre. Although it did inflate the tyre, the sealant was spraying out everywhere.

I have had a number of punctures in recent years and I would be lost without a spare wheel. My latest car has a 'spacesaver' wheel. When quizzed, the salesman did admit that the spare wheel well would take a full size wheel and that the space saver is in fact a cost saver.

Dave O'Neill 2

I think, from reading all the above, that the jollop as people are calling it, is indeed bulls#@t. So I'll keep my spare. I have 5.1/2" wires with 175/70x13 tyres, so a full size spare would take up most of the boot, so I use a standard wire wheel with a 145x13 tyre as a spare. Probably totally illegal, but I have used it once and I drove gently home and it felt OK. I have a space saver in my ZR daily driver and that says not to exceed 50mph so I guessed it was OK to do the same with my "space saver" wire wheel.

Bernie.

b higginson

so Nigel do you cancel all your life / house / car insurance policies if you haven't used them for 20 years?
;-)
Bootlid will take a spare wheel, I fitted two side-by-side on my trials car with no extra stiffening.
And don't forget Sodt's Law states you will get a puncture in the month after ditching the spare wheel!

David Smith

Unless you are really short of space, always carry a spare wheel, and associated tools.
Simplest, most reliable solution to a problem that always happens when you least expect it.

JB Anderson

as I said each to there own

M,
I'm a fool as I've not carried a spare for 20 years but I’ve managed with a footpump instead

I use one squashy bag for holidays unfortunately my wife uses two larger ones, plus another bag plus the handbag plus other bits and bobs

without the spare wheel we have a bit of spare space in the boot

with a spare wheel I'm not sure if my squashy bag wouldn't be too tall let alone my wife's with kitchen sink

we've been away in cars with smaller boots than the Spridget, one much smaller but usually only for weekends

I've had two cars with luggage racks and I didn't like the weight on the boot lid - my personal choice

David,
I don't have any life insurance !

I might as well have cancelled my house insurances as I haven't claimed for 28 years, I subsidise those that make false claims each year – actually those that don’t bother with insurance seem to get helped, we had it locally, they can afford a foreign holiday but not insurance – whoops, off on a rant there

Car insurance is a legal requirement but even if it wasn’t I’d still have it as I’m not a very good driver but there are a lot worse than me around so I’m bound to run into them at some time

I was going to put why stop at just one spare wheel but you’ve beat me to it

I just put my experience, and I’m not alone, I’m also (hopefully) having a laugh with Lawrence, I’m not holding a gun to anyone’s head or insisting they dump their spare

I think Sod’s Law took 2 years after leaving the spare in the shed to getting a puncture – which is unusual as it’s normally instant

Bernie,
I once used a space-saver on the front of an MX-5, not a car with wide wheels or tyres but even braking at less than 30 mph I could feel the difference (yes the space-saver was kept at the correct higher pressure) so I don’t like them and as for going at 50 mph on the thin spacer saver on a performance car that normally has a tyre about three times as wide, not for me thanks

David,
I think you were asking a bit much for Tyre-Weld to hold the complete tyre tread on a trailer tyre :)

not saying yours did - a lot of trailers loose tyre treads when overloaded/incorrectly inflated or very old

Nigel At

Nigel in that situation on the MX5 (and indeed most cars) it's best to put the spacesaver on the back, and move a good back wheel to the front. Probably says so in the handbook :-)

David Smith

I originally removed my spare because I was travelling 300 miles to do some work on my son's first house in Aberdeen, and then going straight on for a 2 weeks camping trip in Scotland. I needed all the boot space I could get for tools, materials and camping gear. Somehow I never got round to replacing the spare. I bought a can of tyreseal stuff and have renewed that 3 or 4 times since then without ever having to try it out, so I have no idea if it works!

My car is a daily driver workhorse. I often need the full boot capacity. Today it was a trip to the builders' merchants for 3 bags of sand and a half dozen 100mm concrete blocks. A boot full, without the spare!

I do carry a jack - a small scissor type one that lives in a bracket on top of the footwell beside the master cylinders. One of these days I will need to remove a flat wheel and get myself along to a tyre depot but there are plenty of them around in the UK. I think if I was continental touring I might take a spare though. Except, come to think of it - I don't have one at home either!

Guy

Been out for a day in Rye, where I saw this. Now't to do with this thread, just a nice car. Don't you all think? Anybody know the car?

Anyway, back to the point.

I used the term "dump the spare" figuratively. What I meant was store it in the garage. The extra space in the boot would be useful for when I do a mass shop at Tesco, or for the extra other junk that I buy from time to time.

Like Guy, I have been known to carry sand and cement in the boot lol.

For the last 40 years of motoring I have always carried a spare. No alternative imo, and I've been happy to carry one. I don't fancy bolting a spare to the boot lid as it looks ugly(imo), and I like the look of my clear uncluttered boot lid (I don't even have the sprite badge on it). But I did think about bolting the wheel there from time to time.

But seeing comments on here every now and then, from those that don't carry a spare, and having read about tyre sealants, I figured I would ask here. I assumed that there must have been a few people here who have had direct experience of sealing "proper" punctures using one of the sealants; Either pre, or post puncture.

On balance, judging by the experience of those here who have used it, it appears that the sealants of the post-puncture variety don't work too well.

How about the pre-puncture variety?

I've googled about experience with tyre sealants too, and many people don't trust the post-puncture stuff and report failure at point of use. Often saying that the stuff wouldn't come out of the can.

OK thanks, Mark, at least it lasts 4 years, ---- supposedly. Thats good if it really does, but how do you check it?

OK so checking it is part of a service.

How exactly do you check if the sealant will fix your puncture, until you actually need it to? What test do you do to see if the stuff still works and will inflate your tyre?

The pre-puncture sealants seem to get better reviews, (googled about a dozen), but might render your otherwise good tyre irrepairable, because tyre depots don't like it.

If either post or pre puncture sealants really do work, then I would be very happy to leave my spare in the garage.

They sound great and have been selling for years.

But so far the evidence seems a little thin on the post puncture stuff, and the pre puncture stuff might cost you a new tyre for each puncture.

Maybe I should keep the spare after all. It's a pretty well gauranteed solution to a puncture.

Yup Nigel, you do have to make sure it's not flat :).

Lawrence Slater

Bugger, forgot to add the picture

Lawrence Slater

I never know what the problem is - I've managed a well stocked toolbox along with camping gear and several bags of clothes et al and still managed to fit the spare wheel in too - not to mention for everyday use on shopping trips, including for horses, dogs, etc and never yet had to leave anything (or anyone) behind.

The bloke who did the puncture proof tyres was a friend - and he carries spare wheels too!

rachmacb

How come its sunny in that photo? Its been raining non stop for 3 days!

Re the tyre thing, my son keeps buying cars that have VERY fat wheels. So fat that they don't supply a spare, not even one of those skinny spares as the bhp wouldn't let it survive more than a few hundred yards. They come with a can of tyreseal and an electric pump in a nifty little holdall instead.

I believe that certain older SAABs used a skinny spare that had the correct pcd for a Spridget hub. That would be a good option.

Guy

Yup weather forcast was not that nice, but in Rye the sun was loverly. :)

Lawrence Slater

I've used Tyre-Weld on a few occasions and haven't had it fail. My understanding is that you don't pull the nail out of a tubeless tyre, that it's better leaving it there and the sealer has less of a gap to work on.

Used it on son's Midget once in a wheel which runs tubes and no problems, in fact when I handed the car back at the end of the day I forgot to tell him about the puncture so it wasn't fixed till I remembered to tell him quite some time later (oops). In the meantime the tyre & tube had been fine.

I have also used it a few times on my small boat trailer where there is a slow leak from the rim having a few corrosion pits where the bead sits and the wheel is of an offset which is hard to replace. Generally if I strip the tyre off and clean up & prime the seating area the sealant at the beginning of the season, it lasts until the end of the summer.

Paul Walbran

Actually that's a good idea Guy. I'll have to check out the saab skinny spare. I already have a saab concentric clutch slave in the ford box, so it would be in good company :)

Lawrence Slater

So one positive vote for post puncture sealants. Thanks Paul.

Just googled tyre weld and found the following.

=======
Holts Tyreweld is a water-based latex formula which does not damage the tyre. Application should therefore leave a tyre professionally repairable (although tyre repairers may charge an additional nominal fee, say £10, to wash-out the formula prior to 'permanent' tyre repair).

It is worth noting the importance of having an adequate can size (available in 300ml, 400ml and 500ml) for the target tyre size.

A very helpful "Customer Support Representative" from "Holt Lloyd International Ltd." in Manchester has advised the following:

1. The shelf life of Holts Tyreweld is now five years from the date of manufacture.

2. The date of manufacture is printed on all Tyreweld cans in the following format: 05678/23409 LOT 123456 where the underlined numbers represent the date of manufacture in DDDYY format. The first 3 digits (234 in this case) represent the day of the year, and the last 2 (09) represent the year of manufacture. So in this example the Date of Manufacture is 22nd August 2009. (234th day of 2009).

3. The product shelf-life used to be three years but is now five years.

4. It transpires that the new shelf-life of five years applies retrospectively to all cans!

Lawrence Slater

Nigel,

I notice that you've done away with not only the spare wheel, but the jack too.

I seem to recall reading the instructions on my (Halfords) can of jollop, that the tyre valve has to be in a certain position when filling the tyre.

That would be a bit difficult if you can't jack the wheel off the ground.

Dave

D MATTHEWS

Add me to the satisfied (three times, different wheels/cars) users list

I inherited a can from my dad when he passed his car on to me (family heirloom style) in an Imp, used the can alongside the M5 between j2 and 3 heading for a shift one night.

It worked perfectly, so well that I forgot about it for a couple of shifts. I had left the pozidriv screw in place when I sealed it.

Next time I needed it was my NSU1200 on the way to work, morning shift. Worked perfectly, did nothing about it until I changed the tyre a couple of weeks later. Checked it, watched and tested for loss of pressure. Nil.

When I got the new tyre the fitter moaned about the slurp inside the wheel but got on with it.

Used another can about three years later, heading along M5 again, (it was the route to work on the opposite side of Brum) home after nights

The tyre was fairly good for tread, so I had the screw taken out and the tyre repaired with a vulcanised plug

The fitter mouthed off all the time he was repairing it, it probably won't work blah blah

It did, lasted a year until I passed the car on to my son, family heirloom... He fitted Rostyles with wider tyres soon after getting it, mark 1 Escort

I had no problems on odd occasions when I used them at AA member's request's to get them going either

AA didn't like them back then but as it was the owner's decision to use, no arguments from me

I have a spare and jack and have been to Le Mans many times in my car, always had JUST enough room for luggage, two blokes worth a few times too.

Bill 1

Although I'm happy with how they work, I always carry a spare except when really desparate for room. Why? I'm a great believer in "if you have it you won't need it", always seems to work, especially if you don't have something!

And there's less room for retail therapy! Now this is a great advantage!

When touring in our UK Midget we alwys have the spare with us, use carr-on size bags, fit two of them in the boot plus a couple of soft bags. We learned to travel light as the family size grew and we kept the B as the family car. 4 kids plus us in the B didn't leave much room for luggage!

But we also carry a can of tyre weld too, it's a much better bet if in an awkward place or running late.

Paul Walbran

I used an after puncture sealant on my superbike to get me home from Cumbria. It worked well enough, but ATS had to clean it all out.

Shawn

Thanks chaps.

So the evidence builds for post-puncture stuff.

I didn't know that the tyre fitters moaned so much about this stuff. Think I'll ask a few local fitters if they charge extra for a puncture that's been "fixed" with sealant.

The boot space issue is really not that big an issue, it's a red herring really. Of course I would like a bit more space, but have never found carrying a spare to be troublsome. However, if there is a fullproof way to avoid down time if you get a puncture, and not need your spare, then why not make use of the extra space potential too.

But if the advice is, sealant is good but keep the spare, then I think I'll just keep the spare and not bother with the sealant.

No point I reckon.

Even on a rainy dark night, I reckon it would take me about the same time (or less) to change a wheel as to muck around with the sealant. I've done it pretty often and changing a wheel is no bother at all.

Lawrence Slater

Quote

*How do you know/test that your can of repair/sealant will still work?*

Weighing it from time to time (kitchen scales?) will show if it has been leaking.

Geoff E

Hi geoff,

But just as in my failed fire extinguisher, the can might have become depressurised and fail to expel it's contents.

Is it really possible to weigh the contents of the propellant?

Lawrence Slater

I just rang 7 seperate tyre fitters, including kwikfit and national tyres.

Everyone of them told me that they wouldn't repair a tyre that had had a can of sealant used on it to repair a puncture.

They all said it was an emergency fix only to get you home, and would render the tyre useless and irrepairable.

They say the repair process they use doesn't work afterwards, because the coating from the can can't be removed.

They told me that they had dozens of tyres scrapped each week. Usually from new cars where the manufacturer supplies the can instead of a spare.

Now this may all be balls, and I suspect it might be, but if you can't get the fitters to agree with you, it won't help much. They won't lend you their equipment to fix it yourself. So you'd be stuck with a useless tyre.

So it appears that if anybody is thinking of buying expensive tyres, then don't use tyre sealants in them, either pre puncture or post puncture.

Lawrence Slater

Update.

Head office kwikfit, confirmed it is company policy not to repair a tyre that has had tyre-weld or the like used in it.

They gave 2 reasons.

1) The coating might mask a more serious puncture or other problems with the tyre, and they don't want the liability.

2)Getting the stuf out is what they call labour intensive. As they have a fixed price repair, it's not worth their while. --- (I agree it must take extra time to remove it, I don't know how much though.)

Lawrence Slater

It would be interesting to know what Holts have to say about their product.

If they don't have a warning on the can that it will render the tyre irrepairable, presumably they could leave themselves open to all sorts of claims for new tyres!

Dave O'Neill 2

More update.

Apparantly it's the latex in the solution that causes the problem.

I found a company called Drive safe. They are a UK based co' and their product is water based, and can be washed out. They advised me to ring ATS.

I just rang an ATS local tyre depot. They told me they had never heard of Drive safe, and ANY sealant used in a tyre will render the tyre irrepairable.

Yup it would be interesting to know what Holts say about this.

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence. Thanks for your research on tyre fitters. Very interesting.I would hate one of my almost new Uniroyals to be rendered irrepairable. I must say that I would never go to Quickfit anyway, for reasons that I cannot put on here. Guess I'll just keep the spare.

Bernie.

b higginson

I rang Halfords head office.

They confirmed that tyre-weld will render the tyre irrepairable if used to fix a puncture.

It is an emergency get you home fix only, but at the expense of your tyre.

I'll stick to my spare.

Lawrence Slater

Let's get this into perspective. Nigel has not had to use his can in 20 years. I dumped my spare 18 months ago and have not had to use my can yet.
Nigel may have been lucky not to need it, but you have to ask how many spare tyres would Nigel have bought in twenty years considering that they have a life of around 6 years even if not used. He would be on his fourth spare at a cost of £120. He may have swapped all tyres round so that they wear evenly but that is a real pain to do and for me, life is too short.
Most Midget tyres are quite cheap £30 - £40 and so if you have to dump a half worn out tyre every 10 years because you have used your can of stuff to get you home (from Cumbria to Western Australia in some cases ;) ) then that is not too bad is it? Especially if it then allows you to use your car for the weekly Supermarket shop or holiday.
My wife or daughter would not be able to change a wheel if they had a flat and would either call me out, in which case I could take the spare with me, or they would call the AA/RAC and get towed home or they may even drive home on the flat if it was not too far rendering the tyre u/s!. This has not happened yet.
My last puncture was 6 years ago in my wifes car and neither she, my daughter or I have had one since. If I do get one in the front of my Civic I have to put the space saver on the back and the back tyre on the front - not something I would want to do on a dark, cold, wet night!
My point is that without the spare you gain a much more useable boot, a lighter car and you only have 4 tyres to purchase and maintain. You may, occassionally, be inconvenienced a little more when you get a puncture. You pays your money ...
Just my thoughts.
Dave

Dave Brown

Conclusions;
Tyre-Weld is a get you home only - (‘do not exceed 30 mph’)
It will render the tyre irreparable if used to fix a puncture
It states not to be used on tubeless and remove object causing puncture (but some have found these don't always apply)
It’s to be used warm

I’ve got away with only using a foot pump safely for 20 years (could end this afternoon)

Lawrence is less cavalier about some things than others :)

replies;
David,
I could say that the car was a Eunos with larger rear wheels so the space saver had to remain at the front – but TBH I was only going 2 miles through town so didn’t think about it – don’t mention those Handbooks, first I’d seen written from litigation frenzied America two third of it was silly safety warnings like don’t let the car run over your head

one of the three punctures I’ve had in 20 years without carrying a spare was on a TVR they come with a space saver which looked about 125 wide to replace the 245(?) wide tyre that would be fun to run on, I didn’t try

Guy,
I’ve been abroad without a spare, many times - so I’m not only a fool but an (in)complete idiot

Lawrence,
it’s not just checking the spare isn’t flat it also needs to be at the correct pressure :

and I was thinking of checking the use by date as part of servicing rather than testing it and fire extinguishers have a gauge or you can have them tested but my mate who runs a fire protection company says the car ones are all too small to be of much use

rach,
your not married to a wife that “needs” to carry a lot more than I

Paul,
it might be that it’s a bit warmer where you are Tyre-Weld can has ‘remove object causing puncture’ and ‘suitable for tubeless tyres’ but that might be to protect against those that use it to stick the tread back to the casing :)

Lawrence,
thanks for date info, no mention of use by on my can but it is from 170th day of ’06 so how long would you risk it before replacing it?

Dave (Mathews),
even if I was by myself I think I could work out a way of moving the wheel position without the need of a jack (no mention of jack on Tyre-Weld can) and I'd probably not use the can but the foot pump anyway :)

Nigel At

Dave, I have a Question.

Where can you buy 165/70/13 Michelins/goodyeear/pirelli/yokohama etc etc, fully fitted for 30 to 40 quid?

Lawrence Slater

OK, I appologise, £50. Still you get my drift.

Dave Brown

And that makes the savings not having a spare even greater!
Dave

Dave Brown

And I have wires so cannot get 165s on.

Dave Brown

155 yoko A drives £43.50
http://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/ts/search/tyredetails.aspx?code=1557013YK4T

Dave Brown

Dave (Brown),
many apologies I missed your last post

I actually realised I didn't need to carry a spare, or made a personal choice not to, in 1990

at that time my wife wanted a car, we had one car and that I had to use work during the day, she had decided that she wanted to go from full to part time work and wanted to be able to travel where and when she wanted - my reduced income and higher expenditure arguement got nowhere

we were loaned the use of a 1974 Mk3 Cortina for her to use

now my wife knew how to change a tyre and a lot more too as I'd taught her and she'd been on a 20 week 'night school' course about simple car maintenance - just what some of this generation need

but as the car and it's spare were 185/70/14 and she was quite slight (then) and as a matter of her safety I took the spare out and told her never to stop to replace a wheel just drive on and if it ruined the tyre, wheel or anything at the front end so what it's only rubber and metal

Lawrence,
possibly wih good looks and charm but probably £46 upwards for yourself :)

Nigel At

OK, fair cop, 165/70/13 yoko 45.50 isn't too bad. tyre shopper.

I'm not making a case either for or against not carrying a spare. I simply fancied more room in my boot. And wondered what happens if I do get a puncture.

Could I substitute with a sealant?

Unlike some lucky people here, I seem to attract punctures. This has NOTHING to do with the age of my tyres Nigel :). Nails and screws do not read date boxes on tyres. I've had nails and screws in new and old tyres alike.

I agree, if I had as few punctures as some here, my judgement would be coloured in that direction. I'd probably keep the spare in the garage.

I thought that tyre weld or the like was the solution, in that, even when, not if, I did get my next puncture, it would be an easy and cheap fix.

Not so. For me at least with my record. I dont fancy repeatedly buying and throwing tyres away.

Nigel, we are ALL less cavalier about some things than others :). A mate of mine had one once too. :) And now I read somewhere, they are a classic too. lol.

And having the spare a few pounds off the correct pressure, isn't as big a deal as having a puncture. It matters little. Besides I keep my spare at the rear pressure, and if it needs to go on the front, I let it down a little. Easy.

The conclusion for me, is that I will keep the spare. It's my gauranteed insurance if you like.

Of course it's pure guesswork in deciding if I will get a puncture, but based on my experience, I will get one soon.

And if I has known in advance that tyre sealants destroy the tyre, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
the condition of the tyre could effect it's liklihood of getting a puncture regarless of age :)

but at last you're finally come out as a bit of a servicing pedant with keep the spare at rear pressure - let the inner you glow :)

(rear pressure for fully loaded) :)

you put discuss and it was

it's not a religion with me I'm not forcing anyone to follow me in this and I don't take the spare wheel out of a car before I will travel in it

let us know when you next get a puncture, I'll do the same :)

ETA: just checked my spelling of pedant as spelling-police and pedants have cuaght me on that before

Nigel At

Frightfully well observed - however, on the last camping trip I was accompanied by a man who packed way more than I could ever dream of - thus proving that men are far worse :)

rachmacb

Nigel, how do you equate keeping the spare at pressure, to being a servicing nut? It's just a normal thing to do. Like locking my door at night, or when I go out. And last time I checked my spare pressure was months ago. From experience if it doesn't have a bead leak or slow puncture, I don't need to check it more than once a year. When I open my boot, from time to time I might press on the side wall. That give me a rough idea if it is still up. :)

I usually kick my tyres by way of a preventative check. If you call that being a pedant, I'd say you misunderstand it's use. :) I haven't checked my points or oil for at least 6 months. How often should I do this to be labled a service pedant then?

"the condition of the tyre could effect it's liklihood of getting a puncture regarless of age :)"

OK, what condition would a new tyre need to be in, to induce a greater likelihood of getting a puncture? :)

"you put discuss and it was". --

Absolutely. And I'm very glad it has been. It's got me very interested in this whole subject of tyres and punctures.

Not many people, very few in fact, seem to be aware that the sealants prevent tyres being repaired. I had no idea prior to this. If you have a porker for example, with 300 quid a pop rubber, you might not be too impressed that since you don't have a spare in the car, your can of tyre fix is going to cost you 300 quid when you get a puncture. (Or maybe not if you can afford one anyway).

Also, I wonder why pre-puncture sealant makers are able to claim legally, that the stuff lasts the life of the tyre(6 years minimum). Once in your tyre, it just keeps sealing any puncture you get. No need for a repair. The AA and amongst others, says this is dangerous, as there may have been hidden damage when the punture occured. Lots of people therefore are perhaps driving around with potentially dangerous tyres, --- even new ones less than a year old.

Sure, I'll let you know when I get a punture.

Actually it would be quite interesting to have an ongoing puncture thread, in which people note their punctures and the interval between. Boy, I must be bored to think of that. LOL.

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence, Lawrence, you can’t back pedal now, it’s out, I should have guessed there was no way you’d have kept and your used your Spridget so long without such care as you’ve now told us about :)

rach,
I didn’t say all women were like it and it’s only four bags she takes now

Nigel At

lol. Nigel my approach to servicing demonstrates that you don't need to follow the service intervals in the owners hand book, or anywhere else, in order to keep a sprite on the road for 34 years.

I must take a picture of my rad cap for example. I am certain without looking that there must be a recomend somewhere that dictates the replacement interval. Mine was purchased so long ago, and has been on the car for so long, that I can't remember how long ago that was. There is a deep wear ring around the sealing rubber. But it keeps doing it's job, so I keep it. When it leaks, I'll change it.

That about sums up my approach to car care. :)

So try as you might, I'm afraid you can't induct me into your servicing club by inference :)

Anyway, back to sealants?

Lawrence Slater

I once repaired a flat tyre by stuffing it with grass. That was on an Austin 7 with a tubed tyre. One of those things one reads about in pre-war motoring adventure stories, but it actually worked. Well, enough for me to drive the thing home on the back lanes from Truro to Perranporth. And, on the Austin 7 I never used a jack. I could lift one corner by hand and remove the wheel with the other, thanks to the "keyhole" lug fixings.

Guy

One factor has not been taken into account in this 'spare wheel or no spare wheel' discussion. There is a story that during one of the frequent strikes at BL's suppliers there was a shortage of wheels so Midgets came off the production line without spares fitted (to spread out the available supply as best they could). When the cars were road-tested they were all returned for rectification with the comment that the rear axle was noisey. Subsequent investigation found that the problem was not with the axles but that the spare wheel acted as a sound damper and stopped the boot floor from vibrating. Taking the spare out meant the floor vibrated and creatred a lot of noise.

So - if you take the spare out you risk an increae in noise from the rear end (of the car , not the driver!). Just a thought.

Chris

Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

I did the grass trick on my cycle riding from Brighton to London when I was about 14. But you definitely have the trump card with the grass in a car tyre. Mass applause for that. :)

Noise without a spare wheel. Sounds about right for BMC/BL.

What ya reckon Nigel?

Lawrence Slater

"but as the car and it's spare were 185/70/14 and she was quite slight (then) and as a matter of her safety I took the spare out and told her never to stop to replace a wheel just drive on and if it ruined the tyre, wheel or anything at the front end so what it's only rubber and metal"

Sorry Nigel, I missed this amazing confession by you earlier. So you are quite happy for your dear wife to endange her life and the lives of others by driving on a wheel with a deflated tyre, even if the tyre comes off and she is driving on metal to boot.

Please explain this rather surprising, and I should say extremely cavalier attitude, towards the safety of others. :)

I especially love the bit, "as a matter of her safety I took the spare out" :)

Lawrence Slater

I was more amazed at Nigel's apparent paternalistic / misogynistic attitude towards his wife. Presumably he believed she was unable to make decisions on safety herself and couldn't be trusted not to disobey the Master so he had to remove the spare as well!
Or maybe he just had her life heavily insured. ;-)

Guy

Motorway,70MPH, blow out. don't brake, never brake, bring the car to the side of the road without hitting anything. Tyre absolutely goosed. The jollop's not going to get you home is it?. I'll keep the spare thanks.

Bernie.

b higginson

Bernie,
Ring the AA/RAC/breakdown company. Life expectancy on the hard shoulder is 25 minutes, about the same time as it takes to change a wheel!
Dave

Dave Brown

Lawrence,
most servicing is just checking, cleaning or lubricating – you know there’s a wear ring on your rad cap and that it still works and that there’s no replacement interval and you’ve kept your car going for 34 years - just think how much checking, cleaning and lubricating you’ve done on it in that time – you must be an obsessive servicer

Chris,
I’ve travelled with a totally empty boot and an almost totally full boot and the only way I know of to lose a bit of axle whine is to drop the hood :)

Guy, Lawrence,
not just a smile I actually laughed out loud at the thought of me telling my wife what to do and her not ignoring me and doing exactly as she pleased

my wife’s not much of a risk taker I doubt she’d ever endanger herself or anyone else, she feels guilty having done nothing wrong whenever she sees a police car, convinced that Interpol has her registration, we get pulled over at customs for no reason other than she looks guilty, about nothing

I don’t need to worry about any of her decisions safety or otherwise as she’s a clever person – well she got and has stopped with me :)

. . . and anyway I trained her well :)

Nigel At

LOL Good response Nigel. Did SWMBO dictate it ?

Guy

No Guy, she rarely talks to me :)

Nigel At

Nigel, she may not talk to you, but I bet she listens, and knows the owners hand book inside out. :)

No really Nigel, you can keep a car like a sprite on the road with neglect. I promise you. Of course I do some things to it from time to time.

Like for example in this picture. I found a great use for an Acro to break the bead and remove a tyre. :)

Lawrence Slater

Oh yes she listens . . . for at least half a second

funny you should say about her reading the Handbook, when she bought her car she asked the salesman one of her many questions and he said it would be in the Handbook and she merrily told him she would read it at bedtime as she had with her previous car

that made me laugh, like the last she got about 10 pages in and then gave up saying that looking after the car was my job and not hers

An experienced owner, like yourself, and who who knew the cars when they were brand new may be able to get away with a bit of "negelect" but for the young and those new to classic cars who do not posses too much mechanical skill I think it's folly

you'll be pleased to know I neglect my wife's soul-less modern car as much as I can (Whilst still keeping it in reasonable condition)

seeing that acro has made me jealous I could do with borrowing one for a few hours but my neighbour lent his set to a relative and hasn't heard of them since

Nigel At

Much has been said here about sealing goo for punctures, but what about plugging kits? I've used mine on a handful of occasions, and it's worked flawlessly for filling nail/screw holes.

I'm talking about the kit that comes with fat strings of rubbery stuff, a round file-like awl for cleaning out the hole, another tool to poke the rubber in, and glue to gum the whole thing together. Seems like if you remember to replace the glue periodically, you'd be fine. And unlike the canned sealant, this repair has no aftereffect on the inside of the tire.

-:G:-

Gryf Ketcherside

Gryf

The only time I've seen anything resembling a plugging kit was when my father had a Mini 1275GT fitted with Denovo 'runflat' tyres.

Dave O'Neill 2

Hi Gryf,
That's how they used to repair tyres here before the law/rules changed. Now they are required to remove it from the wheel and inspect inside the tyre. But I can remember getting loads of punctures fixed that way.

I'd actually forgotten all about that method. I wonder if you can still get the stuff here in the UK. Think I'll google it.

I'm surprised you can get such a kit in the US, as I thought you were even more safety concious than we have become over here.

Nigel, pity you are so far from me. I have 3 acros sitting in my garage. Left overs from the removal of a wall inside my house. The acros were temp supports whilst I put the rsj in.

You can buy them for about 40 quid I think. But if you only need them once, then you end up with them like I did. Luckily mine came courtesy of the back of the proverbial lorry :).

Can't say I would get past page one reading an owners manual for bedtime reading .:)

Lawrence Slater

Thanks very much Gryf.

Perfect solution for those times when you want to travel without a spare tyre.

http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/car-and-van-tyre-puncture-repair-kit-004615-002.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shcomp&utm_campaign=google_shopping_feed

Why didn't I think of this before.

Lawrence Slater

thanks for the offer of the acro

I guess I could use some of the wood that's been in my shed unused for many years

oh and your Driver's Handbook will show you have to remove the tyre :)

N Atkins

Nigel, I haven't got an owners hand book.

Can you post the passage that shows how to get a tyre off a rim? I had no idea that a hand book was so encouraging in such matters.

And you were up very late (or very early) Nigel.

Lawrence Slater

sorry I can't post that as it's on a protected DVD, details are on page 34 of the '64-'66 AH Sprite Driver's Handbook

DVD - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-HMCC3009DVD?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=feed

up late but not by choice

N Atkins

This thread was discussed between 09/10/2011 and 13/10/2011

MG Midget and Sprite General index

This thread is from the archives. Join this live forum now

MG Midget and Sprite General Tyre sealant perm vs temp. Discuss BBS discussion at British-Cars.org

British-Cars.org

Recommendations

Parts