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MG Midget and Sprite General - Tuning su's, it turned out to be childs play

Being slightly worried about altering the carburetor settings I had to call in an expert. Apologies to NA but she did need a haynes manuel at her side.

M Adams

glad to see she's getting at those skinny air filters straight off :)

tell her to forget about the Haynes and look at the owners Handbook or have a look at the two John Twist videos on setting up the carbs - http://www.youtube.com/user/Universitymotorsltd#g/u
Nigel At

Funily enough they were the first things she tore off and stamped up and down on. I'm not entirely sure she knows what she's doing. Then again that makes two of us.
M Adams

she's nicked a windscreen wiper too !
David Smith

>>she's nicked a windscreen wiper too !<<

you noticed that but not the missing wing or bonnet :)

seriously stop her or there'll be nothing left of your car

not sure what her mum would say about her lack of overalls either
Nigel At

Nigel the front can clearly be seen in the back ground.
Obviously she removed that for easy acces
Onno Könemann

I always find the odd job to do when I'm in my 'sunday' best; my wife is now beyond despair on this(!)

BTW - those air-filters will do nothing for inlet air-flow...

A
Anthony Cutler

Onno,
she must be stock piling for an accomplice

A,
Someone else on the BBS has fitted new ones of those filters, I, unusually, got confused and thought it was these polished up

At least she’s using a spanner instead of being impatience like me and using an adjustable and scratching the covers
Nigel At

Using kids = ok, but as said before: Don't forget to wipe them clean before you put them back where you found them.
Alex G Matla

Hi sorry to hijack the thread but.

"BTW - those air-filters will do nothing for inlet air-flow..."

How much do these filters effect things just for normal driving about? I've somthing similar fitted to my Sunbeam Alpine (twin Strombergs)trouble is not much space for a deeper filter.



R Fowler

These are quite bad for airflow. Because the are very shallow, the entering air, which travels at high speed, will "overshoot" the carb mouth. Effective making the intake area smaller because even a gas can't make a 90 degrees turn that sharp.
Alex G Matla

But as long as you are happy with the preformance then just let them be.
You will just have the naging knowledge that it can be better ;)
Onno Könemann

you appear to have loads of room

my K&Ns below which soon go from (new) red to grey with use but that's fine as they can stay that way for 50,000 miles before they need cleaning and recharging

changing filters can lead on to rejetting (needles) and a rolling road tune-up with Peter Burgess but only really worthwhile when your car is fully serviced and maintained

Nigel At

No not much room. What isn't very clear is the bracket which holds the heater valve gets in the way.

(oh bugger I'll have to get an owners manual and service the bloody thing now)
R Fowler

TBH I'm a bit disorentated by the photo angle and all that white paint but it looks like the valve bracket could be moved to the gap between the carbs(?)

I've just measured my filters and they are less than two and a half inches deep including dome nuts

>>(oh bugger I'll have to get an owners manual and service the bloody thing now)<<

yes you will and if you do it fully and properly then you will have room to fit the bigger filters ! :)



Nigel At

I may be able to adjust/modify the bracket to give more clearance. 2&1/2" may still be too close.

How much difference would decent filters make in the real world?
I'm not after ultimate performance. The car cruises @ 90mph no problem and keeps up with modern traffic ok.
R Fowler

Id like to take an opposing view to Onnos .... Even tho i do agree with him on the 90 degree angle of air flow

With these filters being shallow it makes the air flow much faster becauee there is more restriction, do to less room in the airfilter housing....think shop vac.hose and restriction

in other words the air comes in and is used right away, no lingering around and having a big social air party like on a bigger filter

That said if you can make a winged shaped donut to be placed around the carb mouth, you can have a nice carb set up esp at the upper end of the rpm range

Faster air flow and no 90 degree angles for the air to navigate

Prop
Prop

don't listen to prop
But then you already knew that.

If you like how the car works why change anything?

If you wan't the optimum from your engine then it might be interesting.
Do budget for substacks, a tune up/roling road visit
Onno Könemann

If you put stub stacks in those filters, it will only makes things worse! The air flow bends up against the side of the stack and has to make an even bigger turn to get in the carb. Only way to make this a little better is to radius the edge of the carb mouth itself, but I wouldn't do that out of the hand, only machining.
Alex G Matla

Id like to take an opposing view to Onnos .... Even tho i do agree with him on the 90 degree angle of air flow

With these filters being shallow it makes the air flow much faster becauee there is more restriction, do to less room in the airfilter housing

in other words the air comes in and is used right away, no lingering around and having a big social air party like on a bigger filter

That said if you can make a winged shaped donut to be placed around the carb mouth, you can have a nice carb set up esp at the upper end of the rpm range

Faster air flow and no 90 degree angles for the air to navigate

Prop
Prop

Onno means stub stacks with the K&Ns not existing

also as he said if you're happy then why bother

performance also includes an aspect of running more efficently so using less petrol to achieve the same, you may also find a little more punch and nip to the engine - which in turn will probably mean you drive it a little quicker thus negating the fuel saving benefits

you usually find the benefits and more in how things feel rather much paper improvement and you soon get used to them but don't notice if they tail off slightly over an extended period

then there is the extra noise from them - which is nice (Fast Show)

best tuning you can ever do of course, and without it you can'y progress, is full and proper . . .
Nigel At

Btw....im not really a fan of these filters and would not recommend them....

i have a pair, and this is how they are made... a 4 - 1 gal paint can lids, (2 per carb front and back) some thin cheap mesh, and a thin strip of upulstry foam....thats it, trust me, you are NOT getting what you paid for.... They work better on the beat up broken down lawn more then the car

For the money, id go K & N, there good for 1 million miles and you just clean and oil them every 50K miles or when they get dirty...that makes them super cheap

And yes a ram pipe, donut, venture tube, ect ect..... Is a must have for our su carbs....remember some flow air into the carb better then others

Prop

Prop

Whilst the owners handbook is a comic, I do wonder WHERE it says anything whatsoever about how to do ones' carbs - certainly not in the 1275 one :)

She looks like she's having great fun - hope that continues :) I think that perhaps you could buy her a nice new haynes manual for Christmas - along with Vizard ;)!!!!!! Who knows what you'll have by New Year ....
rachmacb

rach I think you mean the Haynes as the humorous book

I refer you to pages 47-49 of the said sacred tome that is the, red cover, owners Handbook :)
Nigel At

Thank you Nigel - I am well aware of which is which - and, since the owners handbook is only a brief summary of the better and more informative Haynes manual ....

Besides which, I refer to the lovely little girl who is managing to do something that many old men fail to do - even with reference to Haynes :)
rachmacb

no you had your opinion and I have mine

yes it's Haynes for repair but it's owners Manual for prevention

but I do agree with you that she is already better at dealing with carnbs than this old man

and no I didn't notice the one-piece bonnet in the background - I can only concentrate on one thing at a time
Nigel At

hello all

I started that thread for a bit of light relief just before I went on holiday and have just got back to catch up.

I'm glad it moved on to a more serious topic, the concensus of opinion seems to be that those skinny filters are a pretty bad choice. I like the look of Nigels K&N set, are they considered to be the best bet or are there any further recommendations?

Rach, blimey I want her to have it all finished and mot'd by xmas otherwise its back to the ballet class with her.

Mark
M Adams

This'll probably start a holy war that will hide the point that there's lots of things out there better than those filters, but I'd look at an ITG baseplate and filter... if you're after something good and reusable..

OSM, filtered :)

P.S. and a quick google does suggest they do a pre-drilled baseplate for Midget twin HS2's..
OrangeSpyderMan

as always each to their own

I soon got feed up with the messy business of cleaning and recharging foam filers

fit and forget with K&N (well for 50,000 miles of normal road use, they used to say 100,000 so 50 is probably early)

I put a one-piece plate K&N on my previous Spridget which I prefer but my present Midget came with the two individual pancake style (plus the other style is more expensive) - http://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/MGOC_SPARES_K_N_773.html

remember the K&N start off red but if they soon don't go grey you're not using them enough to know the benefit anyway :)
Nigel At

Nigel, here is some reading for you on K&N....

http://forums1.roadfly.org/porsche/forums/924-944-968/4959457-1.html


http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/intake/intake.htm
Alex G Matla

Sorry, the first link doesn't work. But it's on the page the second link refers to, halfway just above the nitwit with the helmet on.
Alex G Matla

Lol Mark - and she shall get to drive it soon too?!
rachmacb

Thanks Alex for the link. A very interesting read. I have the chrome type filters (inherited from PO) on my midget and was beginning to think this was a mistake performance wise. However, I am happy with the way it goes and I like the look so I will leave "well" alone.
Ray Rowsell

yeah interesting, the though that the filter is dirty and needs cleaning seems to be a common misunderstanding

only way to find out is to do a swap with someone whos got a foam filter

anyone want to try?
Nigel At

But Nigel, the K&N does need cleaning or your flow is higely decreased.

Another interesting article, with proper testing here: http://forums.nicoclub.com/debunking-the-k-n-myth-why-oem-is-better-t180100.html
AndrewF

Clear cut case it seems.

"Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons. "


Only reason to buy these is...ehhh...chrome?
Alex G Matla

In fairness, it DID show that the K&N was less restrictive, when clean. But it both let much more dirt through, and built up dirt that became a restriction to flow in less time, than a standard paper type filter. The trick is that most of our cars have restrictive air filter assemblies. So ideally you have to find an air filter assembly that's not restrictive but will take a large OEM style paper filter.

I admit that at the moment I have an oiled sponge type filter on my Weber. But I find these articles interesting, and have been planning to modify my fresh air box (I have no heater) to take a filter in order to get both a cold air intake and a large paper panel filter.
AndrewF

Yes I agree that the K&Ns are a compromise but for the most part we are not talking about track cars or high powered cars just standard or midly tuned Spridgets

the K&Ns seem to keep at a level for a very long time, that level is lower than a fresh filter but above the level that the fresh filter soon settles to

personally I dislike gunky, messy cleaning and recharging of foam filters

I'm more than happy to regularly change paper filters twice as often as required - most wont even replace once a year

I'd be happy to do a swap test with anyone and not mind to be proved wrong - good excuse for a good run, swap filters run again, swap back run again - see what real world differences there are

Nigel At

This thread was discussed between 28/08/2011 and 02/09/2011

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