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MG Midget and Sprite General - Time to put her away for the Winter

It's getting near the time to hibernate for the winter. Can anyone give me tips for preperation and what I need to do to make sure she has the best sleep.
P Ottewell

Don't
The best thing for a car is to be used just avoid the salt

If you do put it away for the winter
-service completely
-fill up with petrol to avoid oxidation from the tank (petrol might go bad but that you will survive)
-put the maximum air pressure in the tyres to prevent flat sides
-clean the car
Onno Könemann

unless you really, really have to don't do it

plenty of excellent driving days between now and spring

using the car will bring you enjoyment and keep the car in good condition helping the tyres, brakes, suspension, steering, engine, transmission, electric items and motors and keep things lubricated and moving, ect., ect.

if you have to you might want to think about stopping the tyres getting flat square bottoms, perhaps remove the battery, grease and oil things to lubricate and/or protect, handbrake off, out of gear

TBH I'm not that sure other than not to do as some by only starting and running the engine for a short time as this will do the engine no favours and nothing for the rest of the car

ETA: Onno posted whilst I was typing

oh, and have plenty of ventilation and no moisture holding things he like mats and carpets and other stuff in the garage
N Atkins

Don't do it!
Neil K

The occasional salt-free dry day is a welcome opportunity to go for a spin... so like many other lucky ones, BRB isn't allowed to hibernate...

... so I'm firmly in the 'don't do it' category.

A
Anthony Cutler

Echo.

Keep driving it.

It's not a hampster, it's a car. Believe it or not, even 50 years ago cars were designed to be used all year round. :)

Driving it in the winter is no different to driving it in the summer, esp this summer. lol.

What's the worst that can happen? It's gets cold and it gets wet. But I promise you, it won't get flu or pneumonia.

If you keep in a garage, it will probably get rusty from condensation.

Take my advice and everybody elses. Top up the antifreeze, clean the points and plugs, change the oil if you need to, put on the hard top if you have one, or don't if you prefer soft top motoring, and then drive it just as much as you do the rest of the year.

Othereise you are just wasting half the year. IMO, and it would appear everybody elses too.

You did ask :)
Lawrence Slater

Thanks but I didn't ask if I should continue to drive it. The Midget is for the summer, I can't see why anyone should want to risk rust from salt or loosing it on ice when modern cars perform better and are more reliable in bad conditions. I was actually looking for good advice for over wintering.
P Ottewell

Agian... Dont do it, but if you have to ...along with the other great suggestions...id add fuel stablizer to the fuel... As fuel seems to go to trash in no time and really screw your fuel system up

Im a fan of running the engine 1/2 hour per week, granted it would be great to drive it once a week, but if yhere is lot of snow and ice it may not be possiable... So id at least fire the engine up for that 1/2 hour

Prop
Prop

The best advice IS to keep driving it. Honestly.

The salt won't bother it if it's properly undersealed, and as for losing it on ice, that can be accomplished just as easy in ANY modern car.

Anyway, give it a hose down after a drive on a salty road.

But ok. Wintering. Keep it in a temperature controlled garage. Start it once a week. If you don't have room to roll it around, then support the whole car on axle stands.

Far easier though. Drive it once a week. :)

OH, and ps, why is it only for summer?
Lawrence Slater

I understand what your saying...and i know we sound like some odd ducks

But these cars have to be driven on a regular basis, or else they just go bad... This is so true when the weather is in the extremes be it winter or heat of summer

As you said, these cars are not modern, so they love attention and maintance...

The fastest way to kill a spridget is to let it sit for weeks at a time with no activation


Im not sure that makes any scence

But to answer your question... Here is what id do

Wash wax and clean everything, get about 100 of those anti mostiure silica packs and put them everywhere inside the car, pull the battry, inflat tires to max... Top of fluids and lever shock oil...change anti fresse to 50/50, add fuel stablizer and run thur the system... Clog the exhauste pipe and carb intakes... Set mouse traps And poisen and get rid of anything vermin would enjoy for winter... Invest in big air bubble...make sure the car is tuned to perfection, remove dissy cap to avoid mosture build
Up

I dont think id put the car on cinder blocks as they retain and transfer mositure...

Last... Bless with holy water and sacrifice a young virgin sheep to the car gods and hope for the best

Prop

Prop

up to you what you do with your car

as I put before I don't think just starting the engine is a good idea for the whole car, if you start the car best to drive it

much or all of the following may not be relevant to the original poster but for others reading I put:

not all modern cars perform better than a Spridget in winter

a lack winter driving confidence, technique and experience may put some off but the more they drive the car in the winter the more they'll see what they and the Spridget is cable of

as for loosing it on the ice I worry more about modern 4X4 drivers and modern car drivers doing this than a classic out on ice

admittedly it's even more important that the Spridget is fully and properly serviced, maintained and repaired for winter extremes

certainly where I am there are many salt-free days, loads of good driving days or journeys often better than summer

as regards salt, you can underseal/Waxoyl/whatever and hose off underneath
N Atkins

drive it...I try, this was -6° I think !!



RUS(59SPRITE)

Russ,

Your certifiably nuts....hahaha ... - 6 degrees and your driving with the top down... You wont catch me in that photo

Keep up the passion

Prop
Prop

P
In the verry first reply I gave you the advice that you should not but also a simple list if you absolutly have to.
Your midget will be in better condition in spring if you keep driving it but the choise is yours.

The midget will outpreform most moderns in icy and snowy conditions.
This is because of the weight (less of it) and the amazing amount of feel.
So in winter when the trains don't drive and the roads are bad I take the midget and usualy drive past a lot of moderns because they thrust on their "driveraids" and not just from what the car is telling them.
Onno Könemann

I know someone who has a post 1st Jan 1973 car and so doesn't tax it for six months during the winter. He says it's to keep it off the salty roads and to preserve it. Whilst the rest of us are using our cars he's sat at home. I have used my Spidgets continually for the past 31 years. I look after them and they still look good. I don't understand the rationale of this posting. Life's too short to worry about a bit of salt and ice.
Neil K

Always makes me laugh how many attack someone for doing something with THEIR car and then take offence when someone points things out.

Whilst I drive my car all year around, I also appreciate those who look after their cars to keep them rust free and concours, because they are the ones who will enable the young to enjoy them in the future. We are all too keen on the modern attitude of the throwaway culture that we forget that, in the past, the cars we love were taken good care off.

If you want to put your car away then make sure that you have fully dried it before putting it into an airy garage in order that any latent moisture can not be trapped and allow air to flow through. The rest of the advice is pretty much what Onno said and that probably got lost in the tirade against it being put away.

Enjoy your car your way and keep it as original and good as you can - I'm sure that one of the many children who fall in love with the idea of the midget will thoroughly enjoy her in years to come.
rachmacb

The replies to the questioner are nothing personal, and certainly NOT an "attack".

What they are, is a response to the irrational view that all old cars, including spridgets are somehow inadequate, esp in winter. These replies are an attempt, though probably not a concious one, to dispel the myth that so called "classics", are mostly for looking at, and for driving only occasionally, by kid gloves owners.

Actually it will do new owners, and some longer term owners, a favour, if they realise that plenty of old cars are not as fragile as they believe them to be.

Just for simplicity let's confine the discussion to spridgets. But note that, there are plenty of other cars of the era still alive too, that are also driven ALL YEAR ROUND.

I for one, would NOT have bothered to keep my Sprite if it was not fully able to cope with a bit of winter weather. I'm way too lazy, and far too dispassionate about a soulless bit of metal, to have kept it at all, if it was so much hassle that it had to be wrapped in cotton wool at the first sign of salt.

Question. How is it that so many owners here have owned and driven their cars for decades if the cars are not up to the job of winter driving?

It's an exaggeration to say that spridgets need constant servicing and maintenance. Either that or I am a liar, or a self delusionist. Because I assure you, compared to some of what I read on here, I positively ignore my spridget when it comes to services.


And yet, still it starts and can do a ton. And apart from punctures, doesn't break down. How may I ask is this possible, if Spridgets are so fragile in the face of normal motoring conditions, be they winter or summer?

P Otwell.
Of course it's your car to do with as you please. And if you don't like driving it in the winter. No problem. If you have just fully restored it and want to keep it shiny, OK. But I hope that the reason for not driving in the winter is NOT because you think it unreliable or unsafe to do so. Because those reasons are themselves unreasonable.




Lawrence Slater

Maybe Mr Ottewell does other things in the winter months? Maybe he goes to the Caribbean for some winter sunshine. His was a perfectly reasonable question just seeking advice
Guy

Slightly echoing Lawrence

Non of this is an attack it just is the best advice that can be given.
Add to that the fact that most here are pasioned about their midget and no one can se the non written part of what we are trying to say (70% of comunication is non "verbal") and you get this discussion.

If one only want's the advice asked for do not ask on the internet!!
Onno Könemann

P Otterwell may have stopped reading long back but there has been advice on storage for him even from those like me that suggest he continues to use the car

all posts offer advice, it's an open forum so the OP can expect to get advice they don't agree with (and the OP's reply was a little curt) and must also bear in mind that there's not just them reading the replies

if the OP stuck with it he got lots of advice of the sort he wanted

Lawrence,
the cars don't need constant service but if the car is 30+ years old but new or only a couple of years with the present owner then more service, maintenance and repair is required at the start because they don't know the car or it's history for certain

you've had you car years, you've always driven it regularly and thorought out the year so you know your car and its history you have the experience to know what's required to keep your car going

it wouldn't be as straight foward for you if you suddenly had to change to a 30+ year old car that was totally new to you
N Atkins

Deborah, Always makes me laugh when people ask for advice and can't accept the advice given.

In plain language "a car will deteriorate less if used sensibly over the winter and early spring rather than languishing unused.". P is unwilling to accept this opinion but it is still a valid answer to his query.

When you are dead will you think, "glad my Midget is still in such good nick" or "Wish I'd driven my Midget more".
Jeremy Cogman

so that's when I'll start thinking

good point that the car doesn't have to be used all winter days or even weeks with salt, snow or ice can be avoided

posters can choose which advice they want to follow but it usually pays to get a range to confirm or compare

there are also other sources of information that can be used to cross reference with
N Atkins

It seems that contributors are around 80% in agreement - surely some kind of record?

Just been out in mine... late Oct is great for a blast. Can't wait for some great Nov days.

A
Anthony Cutler

I'm thinking of doing a track day in mine on the 28th Dec.
Excited already!!!!!
Neil K

I've been out driving my Midget, but I still haven't changed my Sprite over to the all-season tires. On cold days the "summer performance tires" have about zero grip.

So be sure your tire compound is suitable for cold weather.
Trevor Jessie

not so much of a problem in middle and south UK anyway

their could be a business opportunity here -

renting out summer performance tyres -

by the day or hours :)

mind one of the hottest days this year was 1st October

ETA: this is a day after some take their classics off the road to avoid paying road tax over winter, not had a bad driving day where I am either
N Atkins

some words went missing in my last post, I meant

where I am everyday in October has been a good driving day, lots of sun, lots of warmth, only a few hours of rain during daylight in 26 days!
N Atkins

Nigel,
Any 30+ old car I bought would get exactly the same treatment as my sprite.(As all my cars have). The reason being that around that time 30 years ago, most were essentially the same.

Newer cars as far as I'm concerned, are pretty much service free for life. lol. Fill em when empty, change oil when you can be bothered. I had an E30 318iS BM that had done 60thou when I got it. I sold it at about 140thou, and only fully changed the oil maybe twice. I topped it up of course if it needed it, but that's it. I didn't even change the plugs. Bullet proof that car. Only reason I sold it was because I was naughty, and my licence was retained for a year. :(.

My brother ran a nissan bluebird up to 200thou, and he's no mechanic at all, so does even less to his cars.

I know you believe that secretly I service my car along the lines you suggest, as laid out in every owners guide and w/shop manual. But truly, from way back when I was a teenager, the first things I started ignoring was service intervals. I was skint, lazy, and couldn't be bothered to service my cars. The reason that most people don't realise just how far a car can go without a service, is because most people never leave it long enough to find out. Obviously you have to start with a working car, but then leave it and drive it. When it wont work anymore, fix it, and drive it again. In between just keep an eye on fluid levels if you remember.

The point I'm making is that old cars are FAR better than their current reputation has it. They ALWAYS were.

Even the dagenham dust heaps so called, were actually ok. Everybody seems to forget how good they really were, and the youger drivers never learn that, if people keep saying, that you must do this and that regularly, else you will always be breaking down.

Anyway. 100% of us agree that Rus Toronto has a great looking frog, and most of us agree that the best way to winter a car, is to use it.

Also, nothing wrong with driving in the rain either. I love it. Something oddly pleasurable about rain teaming down the tiny front screen of a Sprite and the wipers trying to cope. Esp the single speed ones. Hypnotic sound. Whir whir.

So P Otwell. Tell us your main reason for deciding to hibernate the midget for the winter. If it's as Guy speculates, that your goodself might winter in the caribbean, then we will all suggest ways to keep the midge warm and snug. :) You may even get a volunteer or three, willing to excercise it whilst you are away copping some winter rays.:)
Lawrence Slater

Don't do it. Drive it that is!! Mine will be sat in its Carcoon for the next few months. I spend hundreds off hours (and pounds!) maintaining mine and I'm not going to create even more work by getting it covered in salt. True, there are days when it might have rained for a week or so before and washed it off then dried up but they are few and far between. Use the time to do all the little jobs you don't get chance to do in the summer. It won't come to any harm if you store it correctly. Plenty of tips on this in the archives.



John Payne

Nice ob John as always

Bout time you started going to some MGCC Lincs events :)

I think if someone want to care for their car during winter then why not. Those who like using their cars in winter then fair play, it is all about personnal choice and wouldn't it be a sad world if we all did the same.

I like it when we have discussions about roof up or down

Well I have mine up if its cold or if it is raining and that suits me, however some have it down 24/7, barmy in my opinion but again it is their choice. :)

P O
I never ever put my car in the garage wet during summer or winter.

Secondly I never leave it to dry naturally I always take it for a dry run before parking it up for more than a couple of days.

This ensures disk and brakes are nice and dry as should everything else.

never open your garage door when the air is heavy with mist and damp.

And finally I would suggest putting the car up on blocks.

The one thing I dont do is start the engine every now and then. I think that is a bad thing to do and simply causes condensation within the engine itself. Oh and I have never had problems with fuel going off?

These are only my thoughts and I can't prove any of them.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

My oppistion to driving my midget in snow and ice ... Is the other drivers that perfer there brakes over nutral gear in a black ice out of control slide... The ditch shows there are ALOT of people in this catogory.... I deem this situation far more perilous to my car then some minor salt contamination on my car.

I still cant figure out how you drive a midget in 6.5 inches of snow with a spridget ground clearance of only 5.5 inches.


Btw.... There are several people that gave great storage advice that was very involved....I think the advice being givin is probably based on our own personal experiance...so i dont see it being of any malice


Prop
Prop

John,
having lost your bonnet to rust I see your point

Lawrence,
depending on how the car is used alters it's need for oil changes but most see infrequent and short use so the scheduled servicingis a good starting point for them

instead of your current car if you now got an unknown 30+ year old Spridget like the ones we sometimes see posted on here, same as those new to classics that come here, you wouldn't, at the start at least, treat it the way you do with your known present car

instead of suggesting remedies to the faults you'd be doing them on the car and I'm certain amougst them would be some servicing and maintenance

imagine you wrote your car off and had to replace it with one of average looking condition of the same age - I imagine the accident was because of old tyres :) :)
N Atkins

When there's snow and frost, I'm hard top on. Contrary to others views, this is not inconvient. I can remove it in less than 5 minutes. That said, actually, lately, I too have been driving with the top down even if it's cold. Extra jumper under the leather coat, gloves and a scarf.

Definitely agree about the rust on discs. Made that mistake myself before now, and had to replace otherwise perfectly good discs.

Very nice John Payne. Horses for courses. :)
btw, your radiator is moved forward quite a ways? cant't quite see it in that view.
Lawrence Slater

Cheers Bob, I forgot to add that I don't actually use mine much in the summer either!! Maybe I'm not qualified to comment really!

I too love the discussions about top up or down. I think you may remember that I'm a top up type of driver. In fact I no longer have the choice having fitted a hardtop and removed the hood completly. I always get wound up when they test a convertible car on TV or in magazines - they always show them with top down so you never get an idea of what they are like for about 90% of the time!

The point to be made here is that it's personal choice and that Mr Ottewell came here to ask for some advice on storage. Mostly all he got was advice on when he should drive his own car and if that puts him off from coming back then I don't blame him!
John Payne

Lawrence, it's under the front panel roughly in line with the 3 screws you can see on top. Still the standard crossflow.

John
John Payne

I suspect John doesn't drive his in the winter because somebody has nicked the heater.
Jeremy Cogman

Aye, the bu??ers nicked lots of other things as well - then dumped them all in my shed where I'm constantly tripping over them or trying to sell them on ebay.
John Payne

Thanks again for all the advice and apologies if my reply seemed "curt" it wasn't meant to be and was probably due to the late hour. I know that all of you are real enthusiasts and some owners use their cars day in day out. When I asked the question I thought that most people would want to protect their pride and joy and I am constantly reminded in articles about classic cars that salt is a the enemy. I relate to Rachael’s note, as I am mindful that I am only the current owner and someone else will enjoy owning, what for me is the best of classic cars.

I am now in two minds over garaging over the winter, but I will feel terribly guilty if I cannot give the attention she will need over the winter months. Even the best drivers write cars off, it is no reflection on driver ability, modern cars can be replaced, it took me two years searching to find the right Midget.

The other point regarding modern cars, no one hand on heart could claim that classic cars are as reliable as a modern car in good weather let alone bad weather. I am 49 and remember cars in the 70's and 80's and the unreliable nature of them even when relatively new.

Please be assured that I am not offended by any of your comments, after all as Spidget owners we are all like minded.
P Ottewell

Gez P.

Look what you did, dont you feel the slightist bit of shame for this out cry of bickering from what was once a tame and friendly bunch...

Shame SHAME on you P.

Hmmm.... You know its been awhile scense we poked each others eyes out over brake fluid....i hope we never go thur that agian....hahaha

Leave it to a trouble makers like P. to upset the tranquility....hahaha
Welcome to the group P. You certianly know how to liven things up ....I hope you will hang around ...your certianly. A breazze of fresh air... Or pehaps a smell good spray can of pine scent .... Haha

Prop
Prop

Hiya P Ottewell. Good on you for not being put off. I am certain that no one would want to do that to you. We all have a view and this is the place to express it. Some of us are mischievous too!!!!
By the way, what is your first name?
Sorry I can't give you any useful advice for over wintering. Did I mention that I never do that?
Neil
Neil K

The P is for Pete. No I'm not put off and Prop I feel no shame over prompting a lively debate. I'll toast you all from my retreat in St Lucia, ha ha.
Picture of my Midget attached

P Ottewell

Nice looking Midget Pete. Tax free too! Ha Ha. I'm restoring a '74 Round wheel arch Midget for my daughter at the mo. This is me tonight working on the wings!!

Neil K

Hi P Otwell,

FANTASTIC, that you are now in two minds. We can make that one, if you allow us, and by this time next week you'll be driving in snow. (weather permitting). :)

Now, I'm always one for a difference of opinion. Yes, at 58, I can, hand on heart, say that my sprite is every bit as reliable as ANY car I have ever owned. And that includes BM's which have never let me down.

And I would drive my sprite to casablanca (again) tomorrow money permitting, and have complete confidence in getting there with minimal motoring troubles.

I will admit though, drivers of yesterdays cars needed more knowledge of their cars than is required today.

That said though, spridgets, cortinas, mkII consuls et al, were easily fixed. Todays offerings, whilst not needing the same attention, are far more complex, and when/if they do go wrong, you aren't likely to be able to fix them by the side of the road, or on a building site.

And don't feel guilty if in driving the car it gets a little dirty, or picks up a bit of dirt, or even breaksdown. All it is, is midly inconvenient (breakdown cover if you need to), and an opportunity to fix it again, during which process you learn a little more about the midget. :) Win Win Win it seems to me:)
Lawrence Slater

Pete,

good on ya for coming back

hand on heart
(not mine I don't have one, but this was in the fridge)
a classic can be made as reliable as modern cars (more so than some moderns)

requires two elements

1) regular use to keep the car going and driver to learn his vehicile and how to properly drive it

2) full and proper servicing, maimtenance and repair,

I do a staged 36,000 miles service plus changing other parts and fluids as soon as possible after aquiring the classic

details of almost all servicing plus lots more valuable info in owners Handbook (Ref: 0057) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

as said before you don't have to use it everyday and if there are a few weeks of salt, ice or snow then don't use it but if you can get it used at least a couple of times a month for say a 50 mile run it will make all the difference
N Atkins

Hi Pete
Great midget!
Though I can say we do not completly agree on the vision how to own a classic I can surely appriciate your enthousiasm and dedication.

However one point I need to point out is the reliability.
Me and my fiancee own a midget and a BGT both are used daily and through winter.
Both have never left us without transport even through the thickest snow and coldest mornings.

With a few subtile mods and full and proper servicing they can be as reliable as moderns.
And remember the more you drive the more reliable it gets!
Onno Könemann

Lol Pete that's a beautiful car and don't be made to change your mind by a load of strangers on the Internet!!! Seriously, if you want to look after her, then do what you want and salt does no car (modern or old) any good. Besides which, most of the people who have told you to drive it over winter are also the first to criticise cars for sale over £4000!!!!!!!

As for me, well, my most modern car is my Midget and so I only have the choice of driving or not - but, then again, it's drier where I live than where you are, and they don't use salt up my road - so I have less of a problem. Are old cars less reliable? Yes, as a rule - but they are easier and cheaper to fix!
rachmacb

Pete, nice car that. Maybe you should make a little compromise for this year, put your car car away for most of the winter only using on salt free days. Then spend the rest of the time preparing it for more serious use next year. By that I mean things like, touching up all stonechips and exposed metal underneath, waxoyling in all cavaties and rust trap ares (after leaving to dry out for some time) and consider waxoyling (or one of the better products out there) all the underside. When I built my last road Midget I waxoyled behind all the chrome bits like bumpers, headlight rims etc. Also, everytime any nut or bolt is refitted always use loads of copper grease.

The only downside to all this is that everytime you work on the car you either get sticky from the waxoyl or covered in grease!

I'm sure some of the guys that do use their cars all year can offer loads more advice on protecting it and keeping it looking good.
John Payne

Yup, nice midget indeed Pete.

And PLEASE, do indeed be persauded to change your mind about driving in the winter. You can always change your mind halfway through or next winter. :)

Salt salt salt. The word is everyhwere, but not so much on the ground. In short, the salt fear is exagerated.

1). Salt is little threat to modern cars. Even 20 years ago, some cars were so well covered underneath in decent factory underseal, that salt was like water off a ducks back. Personal experience tells me this.

2). It is easy to underseal your old car with decent modern underseal and thus to render it practically impervious to salt. Older underseals weren't so great, but nevertheless worked well enough if "topped up" yearly. And any salt that does threaten, can easily be hosed off.

And not all underseal is sticky waxoil :). I only have that stuff on the interior panels, I use the dry non sticky stuff on the exposed bits.


I don't understand the comment "most of the people who have told you to drive it over winter are also the first to criticise cars for sale over £4000!!!!!!!" ------ Are they? Why should I criticise anyone who wants to sell their car for 4K plus? What does it have to do with driving it in the winter?

Go on Pete, be a winter driver. You know it makes sense, as Dell often told Rodders. :)






Lawrence Slater

also, how can you not drive that lovely thing in the snow when it's number plate says YETI (nearly?) :p

everyone needs more oil leaks if they're worried about salt underneath :)

who said that a convertible spends 90% of it's time with the roof up? other way round for me :p

this is me a couple of years ago. Actually it's rubbish in the snow: OK for fooling about in but useless if you actually want to go anywhere , so I bought a Series landy to go in instead.

Everyone should at least find a empty car park and go and play in the snow, endless fun that is :)

Each to their own: Drive it if it's nice, don't if it's not. I'd be a bit sad if I'd put it all on blocks and things then we had some of that lovely crisp clear dry winter weather that makes some really beautiful driving conditions and I couldn't use it. I thought of retiring mine over winter in lieu of the Landy, but decided to retire the P6 for winter instead, *apparently* there's not enough space outside our house for all of them (SWMBO) :) :)

Rob Armstrong

Hi John P.

The pic of your car really is very nice.

Why DID you remove the heater?

Also, I'm interested in why you moved rad further forward, and why you removed portions of the inner front wings. Doesn't this partial inner wing removal mean that all kinds of crud gets thrown around the engine compartment?

Certainly see that it gives better access, but how do you keep the dirt out?
Lawrence Slater

Where you are Rob, maybe it could be worth snow chains. :)

I thought(think) of taking my Sprite to France skiing.

Bolt the skis on the hardtop, and fit chains when I get to the Alps. I haven't tried to fit the chains yet, but I'm seriously considering it.
Lawrence Slater

Hi All,

As an additional question very related to this thread does anyone have any experiance/advice for storing their car in a steel container? I need the garage for the day car over winter so the midget is going to have to move. I will have access to the car and intend to drive it whenever possible, a bit like I did last year. So I'm not thinking of a full lay-up just ideas if anyone else does this.

So far I'm thinking of good service, full tank, bit more pressure in the tyres, one wheel off for security, tell the insurance company, and a couple of bags of kitty litter to suck up condensation. Oh, and a drip tray!

Any other good ideas?

Cheers,

Richard
r parker

Long as it's well aired, should be ok. But plenty of condensation otherwise I would have thought. Kitty litter might work, but enough to absorb all the moisture from the container?

If you're going to have access to drive it, i wouldn't bother increasing the tyre pressure. Will it be near or adjacent to your house? Fully lockable? if locked up, keep the wheel on too.
Lawrence Slater

I would echo the comments about using the car during the winter apart from when there is salt on the road. The first winter I had mine it had problems and consequently spent most of its time garaged. I suffered various problems after that including two seized brake cylinders. The car needs to be run (not just fired up and revved).

I now run mine whenever possible in the winter. The roof doesn't go up - too much hassle on a Mk1. I've often done at least 20 miles with the temperature just below freezing. Just wrap up!

At the end of the day it's up to you!

All the best!

Steve
Steve Osmond

Richard, I would be very very careful about that. Containers are notorious for condensation on the inside, and lack of ventilation means the damp won't escape. It will rapidly accelerate rusting. I have a couple in the yard and I have to be careful what I put in them. You can either spray the inside to expanding foam to insulate it, or drill holes everywhere to allow ventilation. The kitty litter is a good idea in theory, you can get silica gel type litter now. I would think you would need plenty. Also, if you can get power to the container, then a couple of greenhouse heaters under the car to keep it dry. Or even a dehumidifier?

Matt
Tarquin

Lawrence, I don't totally agree with your comment regarding modern cars and salt - you should have seen the brake pipes on my 3 year old BMW (and the price quoted to replace them!)

To remove weight is the answer to your question regarding the heater etc on my car. The inner wings have also been removed, the black things you can see are ally removeable ones. The front end is all ally apart from the external panel which is steel and I moved the rad forward so that working on the engine or removing it is possible without all the faff with the standard shroud.

It's not as bad as I thought it would be for getting covered in crap. That photo was taken just after I'd finished it, my first event was a wet and muddy Scammonden hillclimb and it looked a bit different when it came back! That took some cleaning to get it back to how it was!! I drove it to Midget 50 in the rain and it wasn't too bad to be honest. An hour with a damp cloth then a polish and it was fine. My biggest worry was puddles splashing up onto the air filter but it seems ok. Plenty of other cars run without inner wings at all.
John Payne

Hmmm. Food for thought there john.

How about the extra crankcase ventilation? Is that a competition requirement? Do you have side tappet covers or is it vented via an extra drilling or fuel pump blank?
Lawrence Slater

It uses the standard front one on the timing cover (gauze removed), drilled out fuel pump blank as you say and one on the rocker cover. Not a requirement for extra ones but if not a closed system must go into a catch tank, which is an old 1 litre plastic oil container.

Before I put the extra ones in I had it as a closed system, going back into the carb. It used to spew oil out of the rear seal after high revs but now all you get is the occasional drip. I'm sure it gives more power as well now it's not drawing in all those crancase fumes.
John Payne

I've two things to add here

the overall and end reliability of most classics has most to do with the present owner, often making up for the what previous owners have or haven't done with and to the car

a more standard car as regards wheel/tyre size and ground and wheelarch clearance - such as Pete's has - will help with winter driving

oh, and, I meant to put before - good choice of colour :)
N Atkins

>>You should have seen the brake pipes on my 3 year old BMW

You should see the underbody and brake lines on our 1999 Focus (117K miles)... my wife has given up waiting for this car to go rusty. It's driven daily in winter salty and snowy conditions - and most winters it spends around 2-3 weeks being parked on the main road some distance from the house to make it accessible in the worst conditions. I sometimes feel a little sorry for it, esp when we have to abandon it when the snow becomes too bad and walk a distance home. Winter before last a very large branch dropped off a tree due to weight of snow, and missed it by 3 yards... damn!

So last MOT in July, my wife asked the MOT man to tell me it was rusting apart underneath, and she was told it'll do at least another 11 years (as I do the servicing, I know it's OK!). Same with my Type-R - except for one fuel line that had a section replaced.

OTOH my German car is reasonably ok... but not up to the standard of the Ford & Honda...

A
Anthony Cutler

Type R Ant?

Ahhh the Honda type R For a moment I thought you were rich LOL.

Or should I say R Type!

Equally My MGF is nearly 15 years old and whilst it is fundamentally and A series metro welded to a K series metro it is still not rotting. Not bad for a very cheap car. I would complain the the Bavarians John :)
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

the power of advertising and good old English snobbery has given German cars a sometimes totally undeserved good reputation for build quality

at one time I can remember reading reports that German's were avoiding buying some new and s/h German built cars over a range of reasonable to high priced cars
N Atkins

Containers are a no no for storing cars as far as I'm concerned, For all the reasons that Tarq outlines. In freezing temperatures they ice up on the inside and then as the temp rises they drip all over everything. I had one for general storage and would never put a car in one. They are also unbelievably hot in summer. Sometimes I couldn't touch the side of mine it was so hot, which is also not good for car storage. Even if you line them they still suffer from the extremes of temperature.

Bernie.
b higginson

Well it just goes to prove then, that the older the car the more reliable it is, esp and even in the face of Salt. :)

If a good old Fiesta descendant is shrugging off the salt, then Fords reputation for dust heaps has long been restored.

Nigel,
You have to be fair , it might not be deserved now (I can't say as I haven't got one), but the BM's of the 80/90s did deserve the reputation. I've had 3 E30 variants, and all were totally reliable, and no rust whatsoever, including breaklines. Also, I've got a mate that thrashes an old golf around that won't die either.

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
as with most it depends on which models and time of production

my mate's Merc is at least 2 years old now and he's almost sorted the problems but not paint, they had paint problems in the '90s too

another friend had a '90s Merc which the other mate said was after those '90s paint problems, turns out he was wrong

Merc owning mate also had problems with his previous new Merc, he alternates them with BMWs that he forgets he had problems with, gawd knows why he keeps buying them, other than his considerable bulk

plenty of BMW drivers I've heard moan about the cars even when new

less problems with VW but they were also in the report that Germans wouldn't them new

think about it people who bought into a 'quality' brand like Merc and BMW with their own money don't like to admit the flaws if only to keep their value up for selling

it certainly used to be if you wanted a good and reliable car you bought Japanese only problem was the English dealerships and that most people were too snobbish to admit it with 'Quality' brands, hence Lexus instead of Toyota
N Atkins

Nigel if you go back a little bit more in time, then ----

"it certainly used to be if you wanted a good and reliable car you bought Japanese" --- wasn't true at all.

Most japs cars and bikes when they came to UK, were crap, except for the specifications. Honda and suzi bikes for example would be fast and great in a straight line, until the engines blew up. Only with cheap prices and the help of UK strikes did they suceed in replacing the brit car and bike industry. Then gradually they improved hugely.

If german cars are as bad as you say now, that doesn't alter the fact the they used to be very good. I cant speak for new as I have never bought a new car in my life. My first BM was 30thou. That gave me confidence to buy another with more mileage, and so on.

I guess if BMW and Merc get too bad, when they lose enough sales, they will improve again.
Lawrence Slater

Salt KILLS cars..... FACT..!!!!

I can see both sides of the debate above. Having used all my cars in the UK Winters I have suffered the pains (and cost) of repairs etc. Driving on snowy roads is fun, salt the roads (as they do) and snow turns to slush, the slush then finds it's way everywhere (and I mean everywhere) and bingo... your car is already rusting. Yep, you can give it a good hosing off (been there, done that) but at 3 degrees, water will start to turn to ice... so will the hose pipe work...?

Here in Aus, (lucky arn't I .. :-) )I see both UK imports and Aus cars... Let me give you an example... MGF's bought new here are perfect underneath, the UK imports are just covered in rust... Radiator pipes just about to corrode through, brake parts siezed up and not working, hinges siezed etc etc....

My Frogeye, professionaly restored in 2001 and used all year round in the UK until I brought it here nearly 2 years ago has just had new floors, front inner wings, rear inner and outer wings, door bottoms etc etc... AS I said above, that was a bare metal rebuild but since used in the salt...

Great fun I agree, but I'd prefer MY cars to be wintered off the road and under cover. I'd run mine in the shed until fully warmed up and if possible move from time to time.. regular servicing and lubrication throughought the year helps too... IF possible, I'd spray vulnerable areas with waste oil, but you may not want to do that to your concourse cars...

And don't forget the antifreeze...!

My opinion only....

Mark.
M T Boldry

Hi Mark,

Salt kills bare metal. No doubt about it. But it doesn't hurt underseal or plastic. So as long as you keep the bare metal covered it's ok. --- I have found anyway.

But maybe Nigel is right. Maybe I do more to my sprite than I realise, to keep it going. Although from what I read on here, that truly surprises me, since I compare how much I do to what others report doing and I think I do far less.
Lawrence Slater

I try to get my Midget out regularly during the winter, but never when there's salt about, nor when the temperatures get bitter. For example, last winter we had an extended spell where the ambient temps hovered in the teens F for about three weeks. During that time, I hesitated even getting my modern car out, although due to work I didn't have much choice. It just seemed abusive somehow. Mostly I hesitate getting the Midget out in winter wet due to the cost and hassle of any rust repair I might incur. Plus, around here the county salts the roads at the slightest threat of freezy stuff. You just can't escape it.

As for just starting it up and running it for a bit, I think it's best to get the car up to temps via a good long drive. Condensation can form in the engine due to temperature swings, and I prefer to run it long enough to rid the crankcase, etc., of any moisture. Plus, getting the engine well up to temp makes the heater nice and toasty. I usually stick the hardtop on the car for the winter, and it's fun to go for a blat in the "cozy coupe." :-)

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Mark,
by the look of Pete's car he'll be avoiding salt I'd guess

good point about anti-freeze, if the antifreeze/coolant is in good condition and at correct strength for normal use then it should be fine as it's not (hopefully) facing any wind chill factor you'd get from driving

Lawrence,
I was think of 90s to new cars, in the 70s Jap cars rusted a lot but were reliable, some others countries cars rusted fast too but were not reliable

I can certainly see you as a BMW owner :)

you at least accept my point about narrower tyres :)
N Atkins

Nigel,

What type of BM owner, tell me? :). And to be honest I've forgotten which point about narrow tyres you made, you'll have to remind me.:) Is this to do with the other thread about snow chains?
Lawrence Slater

The debate goes on. I will not be taking her anywhere near salt, but I am open to driving her on clear days. Even in the wet, if there has been enough rain to wash the salt of the roads. She has been waxoiled inside and out and undersealed. How about I compromise and keep her on the yard with her cover on and drive her when I can? She is solid all the way through with no welding and I would like to keep it that way.
P Ottewell

So long as you don't put a cover on when she's dirty or gritty as it will scratch the paintwork!

If you have a garage, then just hand dry her and keep her in there when not driving.

Have a good winter - and think of those of us who have no choice but to drive midgets in the winter and no garage to put them in to keep them running!!!!
rachmacb

Covers are the work of the devil!
The only thing they do is keep in moisture and scratch paint!
Onno Könemann

Yep, I agree, no cover.

Best keep it in the fresh air if you don't have a dry garage. A cover will make it sweat. I once used one on mine. It was a plastic job, and it stuck to the bonnet and left odd water marks impregnated in the paint. I had to T cut the bonnet to get them out.

For about half of my ownership (17/18 years), my Sprite lived on a london street, and didn't suffer rust as a result. It did suffer from slashed roofs though. One reason I got a hard top.

Congrats' btw Peter. You have a very well attended thread. :)
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 25/10/2011 and 28/10/2011

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