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MG Midget and Sprite General - One for Nigel re:Owners Manual. :)

Nigel,

You might like to divert people here,-- http://tinyurl.com/6m5m5ae --- to get a copy of your bible, appropriate to a '67 spridget, for FREE. :)


I don't know if it's complete, but it goes up to page 12.

Lawrence Slater

Edit,

Actually it does seem to be complete, and goes to page 52.
Lawrence Slater

I already got one for my '72....
P Ottewell

Sorry Lawrence I'll have to leave that to you as just being on that web page locks my computer up

if others can get it for free great, good luck to them

that model is covered in the link I usually put up and on the DVD

personally I prefer a paper copy rather than an electronic copy and having to rely on a computer, much more convenient too and you don't have work about batteries, wireless link, where to put the computer down so it doesn't get damaged or it getting nicked or a too small screen

now this is a fantastic book - you'll appreciate it - see if you can get it downloaded for free - http://www.torrents.net/find/aa+book+of+the+car+3rd+edition/
Nigel Atkins

URLs are a mystery to me. Try this one, try copy and paste.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54553874/12874287-1967-MG-Midget-AH-Sprite-Owners-Manual

It's easily printed, for less than buying it. And now having finally read some of it's contents, I can honestly say, I'm very glad I never bothered before. Now't there I didn't work out for myself (including folding the roof), or get out of haynes. :) But hey ho. :)

What does the aa book of the year feature? Is it worth me signing up to get it?

Lawrence Slater

I got to the site easy enough but once there the comupter kept stalling - I did just manage to check that this was the model with the light for the blocked oil filter now that's a light where you would not know it's function without the book or prior knowledge and it doesn't light up at ignition either (IIRC)

I expect you only skim read it but can well belive it would tell you very little you don't know already but I know it would remind you of things if onlt the wheel size :)

you were able to work things out for yourself as:-

a) you're possibly smarter than the average bear

b) you grew up with cars from the 50s and 60s

C) possibly a combination of both

I found the link I put isn't now direct - the fabulous book you can download for free and I'm sure you'd find interesting was the AA Book of the Car 1970 edition if possible

let me know if you download it and its the original edition please, you wont want to paper print this book off

try this link but the BBS might stop you at the search bit -

http://www.torrents.net/find/aa+book+of+the+car/
Nigel Atkins

Alas I can't get it Nigel. Unless I sign up and pay a subscription using my Visa card. Not doing that.

If you have it in PDF format, upload it to ScribD.com, and I'll get it from there. :)
Lawrence Slater

Sorry Lawrence,
I thought these were free internet sharing type of thing

I thought the last time I tried it statred to download for free but my computer couldn't cope with the volume

is this better - https://torrentz.eu/aa/AA+book+of+the+car-q

(I've no idea what h t t p s is)

also sorry I can't up load my original 1970 paper print as the pages are too big to fit on my scanner and I couldn't be bothered to scan its 440 pages

£2.50 or £5 for the hardback worth every penny (wights 4lb mind) you'd instantly recognise the cover of silver circles this is a book from 1970!
Nigel Atkins

Same thing Nigel. Not to worry. Not much is really free. :)
Lawrence Slater

fair enough

but at £2.50 plus (reasonable) P&P it's well worth it still relevant if you have a 60s or 70's British car and it tells you all about driving techniques, the MoT, laws and on and on

the MoT and laws relate to 1970 of course :)

fabulous costings in £ s d and Pifco lamps, installing rear window heater and 1970 ICE all interesting and fabulous stuff

joking apart a lot of it is still relevant to classic owners, technically it's just above me but easy for most others and some of the stuff is relevant to drivers now

almost as good, or in your case a lot better than, the excellent Driver's Handbooks :)
Nigel Atkins

I did manage to access Lawrence's link, but it was V E R Y slow to download.

Lawrence, you did well to work out how to fold a hood properly. If you see the number of Spridgets for sale on fleabay, it is quite obvious that the vast majority of people selling them have absolutely no idea.

When I bought my first Midget, I was given a lesson in hood folding by the seller.
Dave O'Neill2

I notice the hood no folded correxctly in a lot of photos regardless of whether thcar is for sale but the few times I look on Ebay there aways some

now Lawrence said he worked things out not that he nessarily got all them totally right :)
Nigel Atkins

<<the few times I look on Ebay there aways some
>>

and many of them claim to be claasic car, or even MG specialists!
Dave O'Neill2

When I got my first Midget it was a 10 year old semi-basket case. Well, a scruffy MOT failed non-runner. The hood was creased and split down both rear quarter lights. It took only a few minutes to realise what had caused this and to experiment and devise a better way of folding it so that the plastic wouldn't get damaged. I have continued with that folding method ever since. It isn't the same as in the handbook - which at the time I didn't know existed. Arie is the only other person that I have seen stow the hood the same way, which I think protects the hood and screen better than the handbook method.

I think that the handbook is useful in some respects, or at least interesting to flick through once in a while, but much of what it covers is very basic and obvious stuff. It would come about 4th down a list of useful publications dedicated to Spridgets for me.
Guy

Guy, you beat me to it.

I had exactly the same experience. My car was a scrapper and the roof suited it very well. Same splits in the rear quarters. As you say, it was obvious why. But even if they hadn't been split, it is also obvious that to crease the clear window plastics would almost certainly damage them. So I simply worked it out.

Number 1. When you pull the roof down, if you don't pull the whole thing out across the boot lid, it gets trapped in the frame. So pull it back across the boot lid.

Number 2. It's too wide to simply roll the thing up and dump behind the seat, under the cover. So the side windows must be folded in some way to make it fit.

Number 3. As noted above, you don't want to crease the quarter windows, so fold the hood in such a way as to avoid this.

What could be more obvious?

You also pretty soon work out that it folds so much easier when it's been sitting in the warm sun.

Actually sometimes I fold the rear quarters inside the hood, when it takes my fancy.

Guy, Arie, I'd be interested to see your method.

I'm no genius. But if someone today, who is the age I was then (circa 23/4), can't work what I/Guy/Arie and no doubt many many others worked out, then ------------ no comment. :)

Lawrence Slater

With the hood attached there are pretty limited options that can be used for folding the hood anyway! The method that I started using turned out to be similar to the handbook method, but I don't just fold the quarter lights in over the pulled-out hood material as illustrated. I fold the quarter lights inwards, so that they are tucked inside the hood, between the rear screen and the roof material. I think this is what Lawrence is also referring to as "when it takes my fancy".

The reason I think this is superior to the handbook method is that when the hood is then folded forward over the frame it is a neater shape and the quarter panels do not come in contact with the metal bars of the frame as they are protected by the roof section.

Guy

This is how one car dealer on ebay folds a (new) hood.

Some of them don't even bother to undo the tenax fasteners before lowering!

Dave O'Neill2

Hi Guy, yes that is what I do sometimes for exacly the reason you describe. I haven't bothered lately as the windows in my roof which is quite a few years old, have gone milky, and I no longer care much if they get scratched/crack, as it is soon to be replaced.

I've seen people fold down their roofs like that too Dave, I just assumed they didn't care rather than didn't know.
Lawrence Slater

Guy, Lawrence,
facts are facts, you're both old (even older than me) you've grown up with cars of this age they were not 20-40 years out of before you were born as they would be to a youngster

I strongly maintain that until you know better the Driver's Handbook is the best intital book to have especially for potential and new owners - but Guy tell me which three books you consider better and I might learn that this is not the case

and I'll try your method of hood folding as unlike some I am open to ideas :)

I think people copy what they see others do unless they know better (or think about it)

some of theses 'classic dealers' I guess neither know or care - a lot are steroetype bankers (in both senses)

to me even the fold down hood is poor design and then you have to put on the padded cover or it flaps about over 50 mph (not that I ever do over 50 mph of course) let's not kid ourselves our cars were built to a certain (lack of) quality

the qualty of some sales photos get me too, they get the idea of pleasant surroundings but don't bother to compose the photo to exclude nasty distraction, or bother with focus, or light or much really
Nigel Atkins

You cannot be serious man. LOL.

Honestly Nigel. Are you really saying that a 24 year old today, would not be able to work out how the soft top on a mk3/4 Spridget came down, and folded without creasing the windows?

It has nothing to do with growing up with the cars. I'd never owned a soft top before, or seen one being folded, and yet I and plenty of others worked it out.

You have a dim view of peoples IQ today.
Lawrence Slater

Nigel,
I mentioned the handbook as 4th on the list of most useful Spridget related publications to me. Based on how frequently I refer to them. Others I am sure would have a different ranking. When I got my first Midget I immediately sent off for a free parts catalogue for the exploded drawings (pre-Moss, but pretty much the same as their current catalogue) - #1. I then found a Haynes manual (#2)in a second hand bookshop. Those two sufficed to get the car repaired, MOT'd and back running again.

I have since added quite a lot of books including Daniel's book- How to power tune...(#3) and at least 2 copies of the Handbook which I would probably rank #4. But its a close run thing with the Workshop Manual which would certainly be higher up the list if it wasn't partly duplicated by Haynes and the free parts catalogues.

Guy

Guy,
we're not that far apart with the books

I think workshop manuals are for repair yes but for prevention it's the Drivers Handbook

with the Driver's Handbook you can also decide if something is supposed to be like or do that and it covers the servicing requirements and instructions of how to do them

the Haynes to me as a not particularly technical or mechanical person either goes into brain surgery or deals with much too simple things or things in a much too simplified way

and even I've found a few errors in both the Spridget Haynes I have (now) but I've not found any errors in the Driver's Handbook

the reprint of the factory Parts Catalogue is next book I recommend after the Driver's Handbook with the factory Parts Catalogue I've fond only a couple of errors (but not can't remember them !) but with suppliers catalogues I've found a few more errors or omissions

I'm not suggest you now Guy but I think a lot of people especially youngsters get into tuning well before the car is in its best possible standard condition which means they're trying to build on damaged or unstable foundations (I hope that makes sense)

I've only got the factory Workshop Manual on DVD which I find very inconvenient so I must be honest now and say I've never really used it

the book I recommended on another thread is I think excellent and interesting for owners of 60s and 70s British cars, the AA Book of the Car (1970) obviously loads of stuff in its 440 pages is now out of date but still interesting to read and as history but much more is still relevant as it covers so much

pity that the clearly explain technical parts are still above my level and I keep for getting to reference it as I get totally distracted and surf its pages
Nigel Atkins

Re owners manual, are there any copyright issues outstanding... presumably BL own(ed) the rights? So in that case, I have the 1500 owners manual in pdf format - which I printed in duplex on the a3 printers at work so it folds into a nice a3 book. If anyone wants a copy, send me an email... carter dot christian at g mail dot com

Sorry if you're losing some commission there Nigel! =]


Oh and folding the hood is a matter of... do i wan't it to look nice as I'm driving down the road... or do I just want the hood down quickly...

Right, its a nice sunday afternoon here... time to wash the car!
C L Carter

I think Brooklands books or whoever owns them may have the publishing rights so I'm sure you don't mean that on a website, just joking and all that

I should be on commission but I'm not (yet)

yeah dropping the hood in winter means best to do it properly but your young and need to learn for yourself :)

anyway don't you mean - its a nice sunday afternoon here... time to go for a drive in the car :)

not that I can talk I've "got to clean the wheels" on the wife's car - well at least I can get away with only doing it a few times a year

I'll spray polish the wheels on the Midget too, takes all of 5 mins
Nigel Atkins

I'm 26, I had no trouble working out the roof without a drivers handbook. I have the factory workshop manual, which is very good, but I don't use it all that often, it gets most use when tracing out electrical circuits. I have no other books, and haven't felt any need for them.

Admittedly I am a car enthusiast, my father owns an MGA (and has for ~30 years, I learnt to drive in it competing in club motorsport at 12 years old), and I do basically all mechanical work on the cars my wife and I own. But I don't think things like folding a roof are that difficult to anyone with a very basic mechanical/logical bent. Sadly I do see Nigels point of view, as it seems to me that the number of people with any kind of basic mechanical understanding or common sense seems to be declining rapidly.
Andrew F

Hi Andrew,

I don't think ability is declining, as much as the willingness to use ones brain, and not look for easy solutions. Unless 30/40 years of McDonalds have eaten the intelligence out of todays youth that it. LOL.

People these days appear to want everything laid out on a plate for them. If a solution doesn't stare them in the face, then the attitude among many is -- give it up as too hard.

Faced with neccessity, I reckon most people would work things out for themselves, including how to change wheels, lower roofs, turn on heaters ect, bla bla bla. -- :)
Lawrence Slater

Back to the original topic, if anyone would like this handbook, you can get the PDF directly from here:
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/54553874/

-- Josh
J Levine

A Perfect Circle!
Guy

:)
Lawrence Slater

note for all:
that download is for 1967 the paper copy you can get through retailers goes up to 1973

note for Andrew:
the Driver's Handbook (1973 paper copy at least) has full wiring diagrapms too, as well as loads of other information - I think that even at 26 I'd count you as growing up with these sort of cars, good on your dad and you

generally:
the hood, heater controls, wheels are just examples of how potential and new owners can benefit from having the book

if you don't want or need the Driver's handbook that's ok for you but why deny others the benefit - it the users manual for the car complete with servicing instructions and schedule

when I first started on theses forum I just noticed that a few questiones could have easily been answered by having and reading the Driver's Handbook

for manufactured items have not encouraged owners to service or repair them, consumerism has lead to a throw away society

as for abilities and attitudes I clearly lay the blame with parents and their parents

wonder if Bob includes himself in this :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,
The loss of practical technical ability is due to the absence of meccano in most homes these days.
Guy

I'll 2nd that Guy.

My Sister used to play with meccano as well as me, and we both used to race with my Airfix motor racing kit.
Lawrence Slater

Guy,
I honestly believe you have a point and Lego for year has come in kits that are designed to only make one simple thing

I never had meccano as a kid (couldn't afford it Lawrence :) ) which probably contributed to my lack of mechanical ability, understanding and confidence
Nigel Atkins

Here you go. Todays news includes an invention by a self taught inventor.

---Sky News was given exclusive access to a new British wave power device, currently in development off the coast of Dartmouth.

The prototype SeaRaser was designed by British inventor Alvin Smith - a self-taught mechanical engineer, who learned everything he knows fixing cars in his dad's garage.

He said the device could produce electricity more cheaply than existing fossil fuels, adding the secret of his invention is its simplicity. "It's really only a bicycle pump with a float on it," he said. "As this pump goes up and down it sucks sea water in and pumps sea water out, purely through the action of the waves."---

If more people today fixed cars, instead of sending texts, looking at facebook, playing vid games online, and looking for simple solutions in users manuals, maybe some of them could be inventing stuff like this.

I have to say though, some people are naturally just brilliant. Me not so.
Lawrence Slater

>>and looking for simple solutions in users manuals<<

that made me laugh (in a good way) sometimes, some people have to refer to references to get things right or to correct things

experimenting is excellent a lot of times but not always and for all people and what’s wrong with finding out how it’s successfully been done before or the correct or recommended technique or setting

you consult (or have previously) manuals and charts for your electric stuff

and you’d have known the wheel size for your car and not needed to ask if you’d had or read a copy of the Handbook

most learning is improved for most people by reading books why you’re so against this is beyond me – especially as you’re happy to read my posts :)

I do apreciate you posting the link and hope those with up to 1967 cars find it usefull

one of the uses of these forums is to spread a little knowledge and experience

- which are also need for learning and invention :)
Nigel Atkins

You're right, its about being creative!

My parents encourage creativeness... I was let loose in the garage making all sorts out of scrap and crap.
Had lego in big boxes etc

I've noticed a lot of people my age however, are not creative... they can't even draw basic pictures.

Sad isn't it
C L Carter

This thread was discussed between 20/01/2012 and 23/01/2012

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