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MG Midget and Sprite General - mot exempt for pre 1965

Just read in practical classics the latest mad idea from the government. They were saying about the mot changing once again and how modern tests wouldnt test a classic car.

Whats wrong with what we have got. I didnt think there was a major problem with the mot test now. another mad idea like the 80mph speed limit. Them trying to clean up 1 or 2 simple things to get people onside abit.
D Sartain

Dan, the guy that mot'd my sprite told me about this too. Extending the test period. Does seem crazy.

But I disagree with you about the 80mph idea. 70 is way out of date, but it depends on your views I suppose. :)

Lawrence Slater

The 70 limit was arbitrarily chosen as it was around the max speed of many (most?) cars on the road at the time. It wasn't chosen because it represented some magic safe number.

So 80 mph (or more) on motorways seems reasonable to me; you don't have to drive at this speed (carry on doing 50!), but for those who want to, their cars are more than capable. I could go for 90 in dry, 70 when wet, in a similar manner to other countries.

On MOTs, I have seen ideas to push back first MOT to 4 years, and have MOT every other year for newer cars. Again, makes sense to me, but not my brother who's an 'MOT man'!

A
Anthony Cutler

I completely agree about the speed limit Anthony, but not the MOT, which given my views on it not being a very good test, might surprise people.

The guy that tested my car said, he sees new cars in for repair, not due for an MOT for at least 2 years, in so bad a condition that they shouldn't be on the road. His argument is that the MOT should be based in part on mileage per year.

I kind of agree with this. Some people have no idea of the condition of their car, and no understanding of how it works, what's safe and what's not. So the idea of letting such people drive around without any kind of inspection for more than a year, doesn't sound a good one. Even if it's a new car.

But for someone with knowldege having an MOT annually is a pain perhaps. Trouble is how would you decide who is safe enough and knowledgable enough to "self certify" their car?

I think I'm capable, and I always make sure it passes every time. I have always aimed to exceed the mot standard. But that's easy on a spridget. Not so on a modern car that has to be checked with specialist equipment.

So probably on balance, I favour the status quo in this case. But I'm open to persuasion.
Lawrence Slater

Its not the speed limit I have a problem with really its the points that they bring up to give it some legs like incourage productivity. Any time people will be going to work 90 wount be possible. I agree that not many people pay attention to 70 mph but doesnt mean people would to 80 either. Its just the reasoning I have a problem with.
D Sartain

Lawrence,

I think it may be partly based on mileage already for some road users. One of my neighbours, who runs a private hire taxi, mentioned he has to have his Merc MOT'ed twice a year due to the distance he travels each year.
David Billington

Yet more mutterings about changing the MOT.... :o( Although I also like to think of myself as competent to assess whether or not a vehicle is roadworthy it is nice to have an 'expert' give their opinion too. We all know how to make stuff get through an MOT regardless of the underlying state of the car but, assuming we're being honest and that MOT man is being fair, I think the test is good.
And for those who don't know much about cars, its an opportunity for someone to tell them their bulbs are out (getting to that time of year again when just about every other car has a headlamp out - grrrr) and that their brakes are shot. Nope, definately not of the opinion that they should get less often. MORE often wouldn't be a bad idea, how about once a year or every 20k miles, whatever comes first? I wonder if David's neighbour is needing some sort of commercial test because he's a cabby? Think they might have an element of millage in the requirments.

As for the speed, I can see it making some accidents worse but probably won't affec thtat much. My worry is that if the limit goes up, so will the speeds of those breaking it. I tend to sit about 75-80 in the modern car on a motorway but I'm amazed how often folk come flying past me. Raise the limit to 80 and what speed will they do?!
Just near here they dropped 4 lane road speed from 40mph to 30mph. Now most people travel on it about 40, so perhaps that was their intention?!

Even if they agree to making changes, when will they actually get around to it?!

-C
C Robertson

As many have said, the 70mph limit is entirely arbitrary, and has no credibility anyway since no-one who isn't driving a truck with a limiter drives at the limit anyway. I'm not sure the speed people travel on the motorway is really affected by the discredited speed limit -I know the speed I travel varies with the capability of the vehicle I'm driving. In the Midget, 65-70 feels about right on a long trip. In my family people carrier, I'm more likely to be sitting somewhere around 80, and in the company car I use occasionally which is a big german saloon, I'd usually be one of those idiots flying past at about 90.

I'd be prepared to put money on the fact that with all the driver aids and whatever in the moderns, in an emergency my stopping distances would be similar in all three at those speeds...


As for the MOT - having the tester point out to some numpty that their tyres are bald, their brake-light bulb has gone and that there's a huge chip in the windscreen is an eminently sensible idea to me. Any or all of the above could easily be the case in a car that is 6 months old...what kind of state could it have got to after 4 years?

Edit: and yes, the productivity argument holds no water whatsoever. Wonder if that was invented by the same spindoctor as the cat story?
MarkH1

>>In the Midget, 65-70 feels about right on a long trip

You should have a 5-spd box installed! That would change your cruising speed for all time.

In mine, the Emerald has 16 throttle positions, linear with pedal travel, from 0 (no throttle) to 15 (WOT). Cruising at 70, 80 and 90 (in 5th; GPS speeds, not speedo which reads high) uses positions 3, 4 and 5 respectively. So 90 with roof up still *feels* like you're throttled back.

A
Anthony Cutler

thats also a point thanks c robertson some people mabye not all but some people would go over 80 mph speed limit to say no one pays attention to 70 doesnt mean people will to 80.
Also whats the point if then other roads go from 30 to 20 what you gain on the motorway you lose in the 20mph zones.

With no mot could we see people who may not pay insurance trying to get out of paying again and driving round in say a barn find condition car woth the mind set the car isnt worth anything so i dont care.
D Sartain

Dan,
There is one point to the increased mph proposal you are missing, or maybe don't agree with, and are hence not mentioning.

FUN.

I am one among many who enjoy driving fast. So you might be right, you lose time in the proposed 20mph zones, and they would be a real bore, as they would be littered with speed humps.

But, then you could go for a blast at 80 plus, and not have to worry about getting nicked.

I think your concern about the insurance is misplaced. These days if you don't have insurance, it's getting very easy for police to check. But there always have been, and always will be people who don't get any irrespective of any changes to the duration of the MOT interval.
Lawrence Slater

thats a point aswell we hear about scrapping speed limits but where has the number 80 come from its the fact that it isnt clear and like u said 80 plus and not getting nicked for it just doesnt seem to be clear with what they are planning.

Its not really concern but we all know people are out their that dont really care. I personally would be a little put off or unsure about buying a car knowing it hasnt had a mot. Might end up buying a car from someone like me not knowin what hes doing really.
D Sartain

They will probably never get around to raising the limits. But if they do, I would expect the new generation of speed cam's would be installed. These monitor average speed, so 80 plus probably would get you nicked.

No I have no idea why 80 is proposed either. Maybe because that's the average speed people drive at now anyway on the M'ways?

It's always been a risk buying a 2nd hand car, even if you are skilled and think you won't get caught out. I bought a dog of a Ford Escourt once, many years ago. Great for 6 months and then it began to show it's true nature. Had a spanking new MOT too. And as you say on your other thread, you have just found a hole that should not have passed muster at the MOT.

It's the nature of the beast. You can't be completely certain everytime when you buy a 2nd hand car.
Lawrence Slater

80 is obvious, it's due to EU standardisation, and equates to 130 kph which is common across Europe.
David Smith

Ah the dear old EU. Standardisation of regulations is it? Sounds about right. And for once I like it. :)
Lawrence Slater

...for once we should all like it
:-)
David Smith

Yes good point the hole just what I needed reminding of lol.

It just doesnt seem thought out enough for them to be concidering it yet or are they looking at the small early gains with petrol at the price it is.

Il stop now otherwise il get onto other early gains like privitising railways and busses.
D Sartain

No, you should keep going. :)

If you had ever travelled on British Rail, in the days of repeated strikes (not much change there then), you would admit that even though public transport is expensive and not as good as it could or should be, it's far better than it was.

You wouldn't really want to fully re-nationalise it all again would you?



Lawrence Slater

well to be fair i wasnt around long enough to remember then but our train line have exactly the same trains all be it in different colour anyway so not much changing.
D Sartain

I think the main problem with the 70 mph limit on motorways as it stands now is that apart from HGV's, most vehicles are well capable of speeds in excess of that and the result is that there is no speed differential between the three (or worse still,two) lanes causing what can only be described as a 70mph traffic jam.

An increase to 80mph (or preferably more)would allow faster vehicles in the overtaking lane(s) to get clear instead of tailgating each other behind someone who's sticking to the 70mph limit. A bit of lane discipline might help as well.

As for the MOT, quite a lot can go wrong with a car over the course of a year and it is handy to have an advisory over some point that you had overlooked.

Dave
D MATTHEWS

This thread was discussed between 04/10/2011 and 07/10/2011

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