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MG Midget and Sprite General - MK111 Upgrade options

Hi all, I need some advise please re upgrading my Midget. Its a 73 car in standard spec. Mine for 18 years, I took it in px for a MGA I had restored and did not like. Was intending to sell on but liked it so much I kept it and restored it including converting to lhd. I then retired to Spain and has been a great car to use locally since. Now I am looking at options to upgrade it. The 1275 engine and original gearbox are in great shape, except for the usual 1st gear noise. I would like 100bhp, for me thats enough . I want to use the car for extended trips so reliability is vital. So my options are: 1. 1380 stage 2-3 and overhaul standard gearbox 2: 1380with type 9 gearbox, keeping some originality but is it reliable? 3: K in standard trim, 1.4 or 1.6 with type 9 gearbox. My problem also is I would have to buy from UK fully tested and ready to fit. I would value some advice please. How I miss the expertise and service enjoyed in UK. Many thanks Beegee
B Gore

Why 100bhp?
Just rebuild it as a nice fast road car with a fast 1275/1330 (80+ish bhp)
Setup the suspention properly and there you are.

If you are used to a std spridget this will be a lot of fun and cheaper and more reliable.
Onno Könemann

as said you don't need 100 hp or even 80, I keep with multi-marque and modern cars with 70 on holidays, tours and runs

last month in my everyday Midget I done 8 days, 1300 miles driving hard over the Welsh mountain roads with absolutely no issues and negligible oil consumption

for reliability you need to regularly drive the car and fully and properly service, maintain and repair it, carry out a full 36,000 mile service as per owner’s Handbook plus replace a few more parts for new

if you want my usual list just email me nigel atkins (one word) at bt internet (one word) dot com

a 5 speed box is very useful for long distance main road driving but getting a reliable box and conversion kit is expensive, buy from somewhere that gives you a warranty like Moss/MGOC

if you have the car fully and properly serviced, maintained and repaired it’s fine as standard just by doing that and setting the whole car up correctly could make a big difference already and is the best tuning and upgrade – without these you can’t successful progress further

my idea of upgrades in order of preference:-
full 36,000 mile service and change of more parts as per notes
set up of whole car
fully 123 electronic dissy
Mintex 1144 brake pads (set of s/s braided brake hoses)
rolling road set up

if replacement required then also:
tyres (a priority)
battery(again a priority)
Super-Flex suspension bushes
uprated alternator
halogen headlights

try a tour with above and then see if you need more
N Atkins

If you were using the power I don't think the standard gearbox would handle a 1380 with 100+ bhp. My Midget was 1330+head wrk+45DCOE+extractors and after a while the gearbox and diff were not too happy. This may not even have been 100bhp but was more than enough for the little car and made it very lively. So if the engine is ok why not just do head, extractors, weber, elec ign and see how that goes. I'm sure you'll be surprised, especially if it's only got SU's on it now. If you're not and still want a 1380 then all these bolt ons can be transferred onto it so there's no money wasted.

I know nothing about the K series but if you don't care about orginality they look like a great alternative.

You can't have hp and the same level of driveability through the rev range. It's a trade off, if you've got more peak power then when your just cruising or in the low rev range it won't be as nice and most likely a bit of a dog. So you really need to decide what you want out of it.

When you push something to the limit reliability drops to some degree. Don't forget you've got a 1950's design engine, 3-bearing crank and your trying to get and extra 70-80% more out of it.

because I'm a leadfoot and I know the drive train couldn't handle it I've gone the other way and taken my engine back to 1275. This way it'll be nice and reliable, a pleasure to drive and everything will be happy for a long time. Although I'll still keep my 45 on it.
Greg H

Hi B Gore,

You don't mention money. Everything is possible with money. So assuming this is not a problem, -----

You also don't say if you will be doing the work yourself. It's a big factor in terms of reliability/quality and cost.

If you just wan't a bit more power, and don't want to lose reliability/ease of drive, just do the head, and carbs. Nothing too drastic on the head. Fast road will do you.

Gearbox. You will always want more from the standard 4 speed than it can deliver. Even if you get a good rebuild (that doesn't end up noisy in 1st again after a couple of years at most), you will always want to drop into 5th when doing 70/80 plus. So get a 5 speed type 9. They are still easily obtained, just not so cheaply anymore. But well worth it.

I can't recomend any 5 speed kits. Mine was from Moor lane garage in Preston, but not sure if Gary Bolton is still supplying. Mine was a good one. There are other suppliert, but beware of some bad experiences people here have had.

People around here, including myself, think Peter Burgess is pretty good for heads. I've got his fast road on my +30 1275.

If you really want more power, change the engine for a K or the like. Plenty of people here reckon that's the way to go. More money of course, ESP if you can't DIY it. And remember, the beauty of the 1275, is that it is so simple to fix. You'll lose that if you go more complex modern. That said, modern engines are/should be inherently more reliable.

You pays yer money and takes yer choice.
Lawrence Slater

we've had 5 cars same power as a Spridget and all have been used as dalies, for tours, holidays and club runs I've never had trouble keeping with traffic in any of them

a well serviced, maintained, repaired and set up Spridget regularly used has the power for the type of roads it was designed for - unless the occupents are so heavy in which case they wouldn't be able to get into the car

I've never understood this need for more power as however much you have there will be be times when you want more but most of the time you don't, or are not able, to use all that you already have

I've had quite powerfull cars, especially power to weight, even with me and the Mrs in the cars, so I do know for certain no matter how much power the car has you'll sometimes want more but normally you've not always fully using want you have

setting the car up correctly so that you can carry the momentum means you can usefully you the power you have

some need extra power in their Spridgets because they take them on the track, for road use you don't need extra power

often power figures are about 'willy waving' (not advised this time of year over here) more important is how the whole car feels and goes

a 5th gear is nice for the boring bits of roads that get you to the interesting roads
N Atkins

Well I can understand the need for more power on the road!
Just yesterday I lost a sprint to a 7.5Liter V8 so the 1380 has to go and a more powerfull 1293 will come.

I just do not understand the statement "I would like 100bhp, for me thats enough" in relation to "I want to use the car for extended trips so reliability is vital"
Add to that the fact that it is now a std spec spridget.

I have always done upgrades in smal steps (budget dictated) fun of that is that each time you have a new driving experiance and for a while think "wow this is it"

Sure I might end up with a 100+BHP fire breathing monster but all of the stages in between were just as fun.
Onno Könemann

Hi B Gore,

I swapped my perfectly good 1500+5speed for a 1.8 K+5speed a couple years ago.
For the first 3 years mine wasnt reliable as the conversion was done badly.
I solved al issues and now its a wonderfull car again.
Easy to tour through a nice area and towns and great on motorways or other fast roads.
Its economical on fuel(if you drive wisely... ahum.) and very smooth in low revs unlike some tuned engines.

If your engine still is in supercondition why not fit a supercharger(Moss)?
Great power boost and fantastic sound and a so called "bolt-on" job (ofcourse its never as easy as it sounds) :)

The 5 speed kit is in my opinion a great improvement.
There are several kits with several brands of gearboxes used with different pricetags.
Mine is a Ford type 9 and I love it.
Arie de Best

Nigel, I agree with you about the willy waving. LOL.

Not sure I would haev use quite that expression. ha ha. :)
Lawrence Slater

I'm with Onno on doing the upgrades/improve in stages

(only after fulll service, set up ect.)

this way youcan find which are real improvements and which are not, that way you can replace those bits that don't work or add more to get the balance back - it's all about keeping the whole car in balance

I know a couple of B owners that have made their cars more powerful but at the same time taken away the balance of the car making them less of a pleasure to drive IMO

Lawrence,
if someone's just after a big bhp figure just for the sake of having it then I think it's a common expression for it

but what do you say about those that want loudest exhaust just to be louder than others, what expression/term/description could you use for that!?!

as always each to their own

PS
I've had very long bonnet cars and very short bonnet cars in both summer and winter

and try to have an exhaust I can hear but not too loud, I have enough with real ale and curries :)
N Atkins

I know an ex B owner who sold his B because he made it to quick.
H could no longer have legal fun in it on the public road.

He switched to a pre war as those can be thrashed on the public road with out fear of loosing your license
Onno Könemann

I have a 1970 1275 MkIII Midget which I have owned and driven for the past 31 years. I love the car to drive. I can't fault it. I also have a 948cc Frogeye which I also love to drive. I have done lots and lots of miles in both of them. I also have a 1.8 K series Midget. I love to drive that too. It's not about the size of the penis or the loudness of the exhaust, it's about getting enjoyment from the individual car. The K is a league above the MkIII and Frogeye in terms of distance travelling. It is totally effortless. It is really economical (45mpg) and totally reliable. The 5 speed box is super for travelling motorways. The engine isn't stressed. You should try and get the opportunity to try a few cars out. Come and visit Wales and I'll let you have a try. I understand however that Spain has quite strict regulations about modified cars. The upshot being that you might not be allowed to run a modified car in Spain for much longer. Is this right?
Neil K

I've never been in a B that quick, these were more spoilt the feel, ride, drive, pleasantness

another reason not to overdo a car though - keep it so that's it's fun below the legal speed limits, it's what most cars from this century lack

ETA
Neil,
I meant someone going for more power just to say they have more power to others not those like yourself that use it and enjoy it

but there is this fashion of rolling roading just for the sake of the figures to show, impress, beat, boast to others
N Atkins

I left it too late to add

I'll be in Wales again next year :)

good pubs in Pembrokeshire too
N Atkins

If you come to Pembs then you must get in touch and come and visit. You will be very welcome. There are some fantastic roads and places to visit here with a mixture of countryside, hills (Preseli Mountains) and 186 miles of coastline which is all National Park))I have a very understanding MG wife too! She understands MG obsessions!
HaHa
Neil K

Nige a 200bhp v8 B will do that.

Had a drive in a completley std J2 yesterday (original crank) and it is fantasic to be able to go full on and still have no big worries about my license.
The return trip in the midget was difficult becaus i had to restrain my self ;)
Onno Könemann

Neil,
I couldn'tlet anyone suffer me that's hasn't put up with me for years

We love taking the Midget to Wales as we did with the BGT many years ago and having our 3 day honeymoon a few years before that

there's a certain basic unspoilt pub in the Gwan Valley that we've been to for the past 3 years that's a highlight and so is the area

Onno,
I've had a few cars with RV8 engines and driven a few v8s cars belonging to friends, some with a lot less than 200 and some with a bit more but my RV8 engined r/b B roadster was probably around 150/60 and more of a touring car, with it's original r/axle ratio it was quite quick but not that fast so I changed the ratio so it was reasonably quick and not that fast - touring's no fun when your costantly keeping a look out for petrol stations that are open out in the countryside
N Atkins

Nige
I understand we just did a trip with a Range rover 4.2 V8 to the south of France.
The stops at the petrol station were a sureal experiance both in frequency and in fill up duration..
Onno Könemann

my mate had an early V8 Disco from new it didn't age well from new but was used a lot

at a Land Rover event one of the LR drivers shook my mates hand telling him he was the only Disco V8 owner he'd ever meet

he and I and our wives went for an overnight away at the coast and it was suggested to save bringing two cars we go in the V8 Disco and split the petrol cost - it averaged 16 mpg, it would have been cheaper for us to follow in our car

as it got older and petrol prices went up I lent him a car for one of his regular trunk road trips on condition that he returned it as he'd been given it with a full tank

I done this for a reason, the car I lent him would return 45-50 mpg on that journey, he put in about 2 gallons instead of 6, that brought it home to him
N Atkins

I would go to swiftune website and get a sw5 07 camshaft kit with the high lift roller rockers bore out the engine to 1330 some bigger valves and a lite port and convert to a 5 speed, and you got a great car

Id drop a dime and call peter burgas for the head, and talk to our very own racing engine expert.... Deb Evans of priestis race engines she is mainly a 1500 triumph expert but she knows her way around the A series 1275



Prop
Prop

Hi, its BEEGEE, thanks everybody for your very interestiing comments. I have now discovered the spanish authority would not accept a modifird car, ie,K ,when I transfer to spanish plates, on uk at the moment but i,m chancing my arm! so its an upgrade for the 1275 to start with. Iwill get the head modified first. Easy to ship back to UK as well. Or look for a suitable head to buy and ship hear. Trefards all. beegee
B Gore

Beegee
Spain should accept it though getteing them that far might take a trip to the european court though....

The EU law dictated that if a car can be registerd in one country it must be registerable in the others.
MOT rules can vary but should not inhibit an engine change.

Good luck with the 1275 upgrade!
Onno Könemann

So Beegee,

Can you tell us which was your favourite hit song? :P
Lawrence Slater

Grease
Country Lanes
Don't throw it all away
Sacred rust
The extra mile
Drivin' on a winter's day

All good ones.

A
Anthony Cutler

Grease?

Except for the Franky Valy song written by the BeeGees Saturday Nightfever is much better!
Probably to commercial for your thaste then Ant? :)
Arie de Best

>>Probably to commercial for your thaste then Ant?

Night fever? I had man-flu some years back.

A
Anthony Cutler

Hi, its BeeGee again!. its amazing how much comment I get on my emailaddress. I had one woman from my insureance agent who was convinced I was Barry Gibb!! Anyway I thought I would tell you about life with a british car here in Spain. I am in Catalunya, 180 km north of Barcelona. Its a fabulous driving country, great B roads and light traffic. However , as far as cars go life is lonely. I run my 73 Midget plus a 68 MK2 Austin MiniCooper all year. I only know of one other brit in the region with a classic. There is a very active classic car activity here but all centered around Barcelona.Tend to be rich guys who never get thier hands dirty! Therfore I do not have a pal to share problems etc. Also the garages here look at classic cars as a massive profit opportunity so anything you do is on your own.There are some amazing cars for sale though. Have a look at www.yclassicos.com. The prices seem very optomistic,I do not know if the sellers get them. I have been thinking of selling my Cooper, very difficult to price it. There is a historic register in place, over 25 years old you can apply for a Historic number plate which means a mot every 5 years and very cheap insurance so its not bad. Anyway I am now starting my project to upgrade my Midget, starting with a new cylinder head, over on Technical forum. Its great to have this forum to chat. regards to all. beegee
B Gore

Hi Beegee. Prey tell about the name.

Also, I have a friend living in Barcelona, and it's been a while since I had a drive in my Sprite to sunny spain. I intended to take a trip this year to visit him, but time slipped away. I might still make it if circumstances permit though. So if I do, I'll get in touch and will pay a visit on passing if you are around.

My usual route is through Andora, but I've also driven down from the riveria. I'm really pleased to hear you say the roads are still pretty empty. When I first did the trip through Spain back in 1979, the roads were empty for miles and miles. Often the coast roads were still under construction/widening/improvement. Great fun with the front shock arms moving laterally, because of the ridges left in the rough road surface by the catapillar tracks from the earth movers. I never saw a single other spridget the whole time. It'd be great to have a meet.

Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 21/10/2011 and 28/10/2011

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