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MG Midget and Sprite General - MG MIDGET REGISTER

I am unsure if I have entered my car on there already - I think not to be honest - I will do so as soon as I find the paperwork etc. My question is ------ How can I see the register? or search it? or even can I use it at all? Is it a 'hidden', without being funny about it, list for those with access only?

Dave
Dave Price

Are you referring to the MG Car Club Midget Register Dave? Bob (Robert) is probably the man to help you with that. I would imagine that for data protection reasons any details you submit will be confidential and any records (yours or other people's) only disclosed with the relevant person's prior consent.
Mothy - '65 GAN3 and '65 HAN8

I believe it is Mothy - I have no problem with it - the register - but I assumed you could just drop into it and have a look. What you put above makes sence now.
Dave Price

Yes as Mothy says it is not available for public view, if that is a good thing or not I am not sure but that is that.

Sadly I do not have any dealings with the Midget Register anymore after the committee were not happy with the way I was developing their website so we agreed to do our own thing. I have moved all my stuff somewhere else and simply need to find time to get everything up to date and running.

It is a little sad really because the MGCC has the people with the knowledge and ability to create a reference site that would be far in advance of anything we have currently Historically, maintenence, racing and modifying, just nees co-ordinting. :)

Any if you need information on the register then simply contact Graham Springthorpe on their website
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

But why can I buy a MMM register witch has a small bit of info (vin, engine nr, country, name of owner)

Surely these cars are worth more and thus more prone to all sorts of shady things.

Why can't this be made available for the midgets?

Both registers answer to the MGCC so the "rules" should be the same....
Onno Könemann

Personally I cannot understand why in this day and age that the information is nor readily available for people to search to see a bit of history, track if their old car is still on the road, scrapped etc. Data protection is a wide and and often hidden behind act that was introduced to prevent "unauthorised" access to information.

Surely many previous and present owners would like to allow others to find out out about their past or present car. I believe all this could be done without breaching the DPA.

Your thoughts?

Tony Brough

As long as Registers are closed for me to look into I cannot see the use of them.
Im in the Masc register and am or was in the Germanspridget register.

So far the only good one ive seen is the German one which is online and shows a picture of your car, year of build, owners name and country.

Years ago me and me mate were asked by the MGCC holland to take over the midget register as the previous keepers planned to retire.
When we sugested we wanted to go online with it the then mgcc-board and "old"register keepers were shocked and we were no longer needed...
Privacy?
As member of the Dutch MGCC you get a little book with all the memebers in, where they live, what mg's they own, in what collor, phone numbers.
So there goes privacy argument.

Unless a register isnt open for atleast its own members its (in my opinion) completly useless and thereby takes away the fun of joining a register.


Arie de Best

I must admit to NOT knowing they ins and outs of privacy or for that matter the MGCC rules and regs, however I do know the following:

One reason I will never be a member of the MGOC is that many years ago I believe their membership list was sold/given to a third party for marketing purposes. At that time I read in their magazine that this had been done in the "interests" of members to give them special offers.

I find that to be repulsive and do not want my details given to anyone other than those I specifically permit. I feel if too much info is available on line then a third party could gain and make marketing use of that detail.

It is a fine line I believe between innocent information availability and something more sinister.

Strangely here is a post from someone on the T series BBS discussing a similar subject. I am somewhere near this poster.

"""Thread: The New England MG 'T' Register, LTD""


As I see it, The Register doesn't have the right to pass on my personal data to any party or organization, like Harris, without my permission.

And again as I see it, Harris may be breaking a law on intellectual property since they knowingly are using a list, with data not legally obtained, for purposes of solicitation.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué."""
Bob Turbo Midget England

Unfortunately within all EU countries (not just under the UK DPA) personal information such as names of the owners of vehicles can only be disclosed either where there is a statutory requirement or where the relevant person has consented.

Speaking as a lawyer, there is absolutely no legal reason why registers could not be set up that had as a requirement of membership agreement to disclosure of certain info to other members of the register, or indeed just to public disclosure of car details without owner's names.

However I suspect the issue is that a lot of existing registers were established long before such "data use consent" requirements existed and accordingly you would have to get consents from scratch from existing members which could be a long and costly process. Is the cost/benefit of making registers compliant worth going through that process? (I don't know the answer, I guess each organisation forms its own view).

Most organisations will understandably "play it safe" when it comes to regulatory compliance, particularly where the individuals running the organisation (often on a purely voluntary basis) could get fixed with personal criminal liability...
Mothy - '65 GAN3 and '65 HAN8

several MGCC registers have 'open' lists but like Arie's example they just say name or 'anonymous' and county - having asked the owner if it's OK to use their name or not at signup time. I'm thinking of the V8 register specifically, and the Maestro Turbo lot do something very similar.
David Smith

Good grief - I didn't expect such a warm response from the above. My personal thoughts - how do I know whats on there? and how do I access it? Is it a useful register but another club within another club? And I thought it was all about the car!!
Dave Price

I've been reading with interest, the foregoing comments and wondered why, when I click on "view vehicle profile" on this forum, I can see quite alot of info about the person, where he or she is from, email address, all about their car, pictures and points of extra interest about the car. So, where does that stand with the DPA.
I would think that in any register, the above information would be what most people would be interesed in. Perhaps Mothy, as a lawyer, would have a view on why this is all that different in the eyes of the authorities, to a register like the one previously mentioned.

Bernie.
b higginson

Bernie
When you applyed for the BBS you gave the info and ticked boxes what to show and what not.
So that is a whole different ball game.

I think you can publish cad details known to the register with out a problem.
As you can check those with the DVLA if you see it driving by and not the plates
It is the owners info that would be subject to the approval of the person in question
Onno Könemann

Bernie, as Onno says, the difference is that you have expressly given your permission to MG Cars Forum for that information that you have chosen to make public on your profile to be seen by everybody.

With a lot of the longstanding registers, they don't have the car owner's express permission to disclose details on record, so they cannot legally disclose it. And you cannot legally "imply" consent, it has to be express. The cost and time hassle of chasing everyone up and persuading them to give consent would be considerable. Plus what do you do with people who won't give consent? Throw them out of the applicable register? But then the register won't be complete... as you can see it is a bit of nightmare.

It's all very well us spridget loving people wanting to be nosy and know who owns which spridgets - but there are all sorts of reasons why certain owners may not want that information out there. And as far as I'm concerned, morally and legally, that's fair enough.
Mothy - '65 GAN3 and '65 HAN8

Mothy

You say you can not publish information publicly available???
Imo the car's details are are public record and only the owners info is confidential.

You could easly setup a register with the car info.
With modern database programs you can use the complete register and make only parts of it visible.
When the car then changes hand or the owner update's the info you can add a form for consent to make the rest of the info public.

Public can mean a lot in this case.
You can go completly public of just to register members etc
Onno Könemann

Onno, what you cannot publish without express consent is "personal data" i.e. names and addresses. In the UK this defined in the Data Protection Act 1998.

Publically available vehicle details but without names and addresses should be fine.

Of course your solution is correct, and even desirable, but for the various clubs it goes back to practical issues such as cost and perceived usefulness that I've mentioned above...
Mothy - '65 GAN3 and '65 HAN8

Then Dutch and UK law are on one line ;)

The cost are not that big as the software is the only real investment.
As most registars are volunteers all it would take is their effort which might be a lot to ask if the register is only available in paper.
If it is digitalised the transfer should be doable with the right conversion programs
Onno Könemann

Mothy. Thanks for explaining the finer points of the DPA and I do understand what Onno says about the fact that we ticked boxes on this forum. Could the same policy not apply on something like the MG Midget register as Onno seems to sugest? I suppose it must be, as you say, down to perceived usefulness and could the club officers be bothered to get more involved than they already are, being as they are volunteers?

Bernie.
b higginson

I think the problem is merely (!) one of practicality and logistics. If the Register has been collected over a number of years they could not release the whole Register unless everyone had agree to this. And going back over possibly many years to get all the individuals to agree would be a mammoth task.
The only practical way would be to create a sub-set of the Register to show just those who either from now on and inon the future give their agreement, or for past subscribers who can be contacted for permission. But it would not then be a full Register.
Or, assuming that it is now computerised information (which it may not be) then just release the non=personal part of the data as Onno suggests. But it still requires someone to do the sorting!
Guy

You live close to the register keeper so, why don't you volunteer to help?
rachmacb

Do I? - Didn't realise that!
Guy

Lol sorry not you Guy! You do live close by an item I have on watch on eBay though ........ Again!

David lives not that far away.
rachmacb

Oh, Ok let me know if you want something collecting - or checking out if you want a "view" on it first. Anything considered unless it has hooves!
Guy

As previously ranted about to Rach - I have found the Midget Register to be a complete waste of time. It's now several months since I tried to wake someone up there to a-get Fidget on there, and b- see if there was any record of the car already - as I am dying to find out more about it.
There has been a resounding silence from them and I am very cross about it INDEED!! So cross in fact that I also had a rant at Julian White - who was suitably apologetic, but didn't have any information about why they are such an apathetic bunch.
Ally

Ally,
you can get detailed information about previous keepers and other changes to your car for a fiver from the DVLA

I’ve done it a few times and have got photocopies of details going back to first registration, can be quite interesting and informative

‘Request for information’ (V888) -

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065303.pdf
Nigel At

That wasn't really the point I was making.

To clarify - there's many people around who sit and moan and demand - it's kinda like Midget50 - EVERYONE on here said they wanted this, and that, and t'other, and then loads more - moaned and groaned constantly about that their choice hadn't been chosen - but it was up to a HANDFUL of very hard working people who got off their rear-ends and volunteered to do it!!!!

Same with Midget Register - and all the other Registers - and, MASC and various other car clubs (yes, the exception being the MGOC, which is a business, not a club, before anyone says that ...!)

These are all run by volunteers, who are usually the same old ones who have slogged their guts out for many years - many of whom are possibly a bit tired and almost certainly dogged and sick of it all - so bring in new blood - volunteer - and that way you get to steer things where you want to go. There are loads of activities which are poorly supported by the average Midget person - look at the Register Road Run - AND the Aldon shoot out - these are Midget Register organised things - and how many of you are going to turn up and go to them - for shame - it's the big year of the Midget.

Many of you are rude about B owners - they are old blah blah blah - but, do you REALLY think that their events next year will be so purely supported? Already they have got people signed up for MGB50 - when, this time last year for Midget50 we were in despair that anyone was going to come!

As for the Register - well, yes, if it was on paper (which it was!), then no, it can't be open as Mothy says without the trouble of finding everyone - and yes, there's ALOT of work that is needed and only ONE person doing it - so, if anyone would like to stop moaning and do something - then contact the Car Club and they will likely welcome you with open arms.

I was going to apologise for the rant, but I've decided not to - this is just one person's opinion, but, it is an opinion, and is, therefore, as valid as anyone elses'! All I ask is, before damning me - you sit down and think about what I said - and hopefully it will stir at least one of you to volunteer.
rachmacb

Hi Nigel,

Sadly the DVLA aint that good. Years ago, I tried to trace the history of my '66 sprite. I bought it in 1977, and the DVLA don't know anything about it before that date. I had to register it with them.

I have their letter telling me that all they know is what I told them about the car.

They even returned my fiver.

When I bougtht the car it was pre DVLA, all local offices. Mine was black Prince Road in SW London.

My guess is that not all records made it Swansea. Probably due to cars not being taxed for some years. You know how it was back then, it was more a matter of personal choice if you decided to MOT or tax your car. lol.

Anyway, I would like to find out if there was a record kept at the factory, of first regisrations.

Did the factory record registration numbers against chassis/body/engine numbers?
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
My DVLA £5 enquiry came up trumps with photocopies of all their records on my 71 Sprite from first registration by the supplier's garage. Followed by 16 subsequent owners and 5 colour changes up to me in 1989! I got that info in 1992 and remember being surprised that it was only a £5 then!

So, its variable and worth a try.
Then there is the Heritage Certificate (a lot more expensive!delivery) But that only shows the Reg No as you provide it. They don't record it as the car was not registered until sold, sometimes months after
Guy

Thanks Guy.

So if I understand correctly, the car leaves(left) the factory unregistered, and the dealership would have registered it to the first owner, either themselves, but more likely the retail customer. That was at a local DVLA office, and all those records eventually went to the DVLA central at swansea sometime in the '80's?

If that's the caes unless there is a record going all the way back to the first registration, such as your own, then there is no way to be certain that a registration number on an early car, is actually the correct number for the car. The plate could have been swapped for something else.

I bought my car from a breakers yard. I didn't get a log book with it, it was lost and never turned up, but he was sure it hadn't been scrapped officially, and advised me to get a copy.

Honest John he had to be, as he was only a few doors away from the local nick, and had cops as customers. So if it was a dodgy plate he didn't know it. I even checked with the nick myself to see if it was a stolen car or the like, and they had no record. So I assumed it was clean, and bought it for 40 quid cash :)

I was very suprised when I registered it with the licence office to get a copy log book and tax disc.

They had no record of my plate or car whatsoever. I had to tell them all about it; Colour, engine, make, model, etc

When I enquired at Swansea central DVLA in '95, I expected them to have all the records I didn't have, but it seems that they only have what was given to them by the local offices, and my car was not recorded with my local office prior to my registering it.

So the history of my car will forever be a mystery it seems. 11 lost years. Not that I mind, just curious.







Lawrence Slater

That's about it Lawrence.
Registration records used to be held by individual County Councils. They transferred their records to the DVLA, only there is a deal of inconsistency with some Counties "loosing" quite a lot of the early information. The amount of detail you can get from DVLA will vary depending on where your car spent its earlier years.
Guy

As a one time committee member of the MGF Register, and an active car club member, I would be more than happy to help the Midget Register in any way possible. I like the club spirit, and I like doing Register stuff. My beef is that I haven't had any response to my correspondence.

I have previous owner details fr my car, so don't need to get the DVLA report. I've written to him, just not heard anything back yet - and without knowing if he is even still alive, it's hard to predict my chances of finding out anything about the car. I guess what I was hoping for was for the car to be known to someone, who could say "Oh Yes, I remember David doing this, this or this, and he had the odd problem with this" - that sort of thing.

I bought the car from someone who had bought it a feww days previously from someone who had bought it from the previous registered owner, who had owned it for 20 years. The two temporary owners had both bought it as a breaker so presumably had no interest in its history. All I got was the car, the keys and the V5. And a tennis ball...
Ally

OK Having been a member of the MGCC for far too many years and also done a bit of time on the Midget Register committee along with getting my own car on the register around 1989? I feel I need to address a couple of points that have been raised in this discussion.

To answer Dave Price, Dave it is not simply another club within a club, it is a section of the MGCC that is there to help members with Midgets and Sprites in whatever area they require help. We are all members of the MGCC enjoying the benefits that that brings. Whether that is numerous local meetings and events in every area each month or huge international events such as Silverstone MG Live.

Ally. When the original cars were entered into the register this was all done on paper as PCs were not readily to hand. Some of the cars were already 20 years old and had already seen a rather chequered history. With respect the MGF registrar will have had a far easier time of things with relitively new cars on a decent program right from the word go. The Midget registrar has been fighting mountains of paperwork ever since.

On top of this we have a situation when I would suggest that about 75% of the information will be incorrect. As an example the details about my car were given to the register in 1989 (to Jonathan Severn) and my car has changed dramatically in that time but I have NOT informed the register. So if I can not be bothered then how many more people have come and gone and not informed the register of owner changes or indeed modifications or scrappage.

Ally the Midget register committee are not as you have described but are in fact a very nice group of people trying to do the best they can in a difficult task. I KNOW I can say without any doubt that had it not been for the efforts of Dennis Wharf (Register chairman) then Midget 50 would simply not have happened. I feel somehow the registrar (A personal friend of mine) has not received your info and I am wondering how you have supplied the info to him and what other communication you have tried?

I think it is fair to say that the register could make available possibly on line a service that would allow someone to search for their particular car and have any non personal details displayed. Certainly past owners would not be available to them and I assume everyone would understand why. However suggesting that someone remembering "David doing this that or the other" is a little far fetched and highly unlikely, unlike perhaps someone in the MGF register knowing exactly what Scarlet had done to his MGF! Spridgets are just not the same. :)
Bob Turbo Midget England

ETA: I wrote this before seeing Bob’s post and it confirms my fourth paragraph – the need to check and cross reference when seeking information

Ally,
getting information is a bit like car restoration usually more to it than you think and lots of frustrations it can also take a lot of time and effort and as you’ve put still come to a dead end

I’d still send off for a fiver as it will confirm the information you have and give you more, 20 years isn’t the full life of the car and previous owners can sometimes give you information about the car before and after they owned it (sometimes even sold within the family, I’ve had that with two cars)

I often find telephoning is more effective than writing, I’ve phoned previous owners and had current owners phone me as a previous owner

With writing you’re not certain that the letter even gets there and then whether it is read, like emails or forum posts – I don’t know if you’ve read this far – with a telephone conversation you have greater conformation

Lawrence,
at least you got your money back!

And you got the information that they didn’t have the records

like Guy I’ve always got full and comprehensive information

IIRC the records went over to Swansea in 70s(?) but there was a fire(?) somewhere that lost some records in ‘75(?)

Heritage Motor Centre – Archive Services
(taken from chassis number) - http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/exhibitions/archive-services/
Nigel At

Hi nigel,

Well if there was a fire, and along with Guys account of the Council record keeping, then I guess I shouldn't be surprised if I didn't get any info.

But as you say I got my fiver back, and that WAS a surprise :) I had expected a "tough luck, sorry no information available and thanks for the 5 quid" lol.

I just dug out an old green log book for a car I scrapped many years ago, and it confirms that up to 1975 at least, cars were still registered with local council. Mine was the GLC. There were 5 departments and depending on the numerical part of the number plate, that's where your car records were kept. Then all that was sent to Swansea (or not).

I'll never know who owned my car before me, and nor will anybody else (unless a po pops up recognises my car. So in a sense, as I am the only registered owner, I am also the first owner. lol
Lawrence Slater

On Topic
having worked and dealt with the general public since the age of 10 – I worked during school holidays and some term times hence my less than brilliant education – and having been a membership secretary for the club I’m a member of and dealing with a paper and (MS Access) electronic databases I can tell you getting and retaining correct information is in practice impossible

As Ally is finding getting information is time consuming and not always easy and requires a lot of checking and cross-referencing information and even then might not be possible

Checking and cross-referencing existing information especially when it’s on paper is very time consuming and requires phone calls, emails and perhaps letters and then following or chasing them up – I think most would give up after just a few hours or soon look for a much lower level of accuracy or volume of information

Some things are very basic such as not being able to find anyone that can read someone’s writing on a form so unable to contact them, people get flustered when form filling and make mistakes or give wrong information, I’m sure we’ve all done it at some time and electronic forms can be a lot less forgiving

Even speaking to people they can give you wrong information and make mistakes

Then of course the person doing or inputting information to the database can introduce their own mistakes despite checks and cross referencing

I’m now as guilty as others as I haven’t bothered updating car information on my club’s database as I know the information is of little use because of the lack of accuracy

I have added my Midget’s to this database but found there was no way of recording the fact that the registration had changed (other than registering it as two cars)

O/T
Lawrence,
see my reply on other thread
Nigel At

Lawrence

Hi mate in the 70s all the existing DVLA records were dispossed of and so information prior to that is somewhat sparse.

However an organisation I am aware of has rescued alot of these records and can (by hand) search these recovered records to see if there is information on your registration mark.

E mail me if you would like to be put in touch with them

rjwelchmidget"at"aol.com
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

That's a bit of a cryptic message, Bob !
Guy

Bob,

I don't think I said anything about the Midget register bod's. I couldn't anyway, as I haven't heard from them. I emailed Dennis Wharf, as he is the contact named on the Midget Register section of the MGCC website - several times.

However - I'm probably being very unfair. The while Midget situation is not making me happy at all at the moment, so I'm all ranty.

Very briefly - I bought the car with various people saying that it would be a really great project for a bunch of keen friends, and we could all do our bit to get it back on the road. Since it arrived, no-one has come near it (bar one 20 minute visit from one of the team) and I'm left with a car that I can't do much to, unless I pay someone with greater knowledge than myself. It was never going to be a quick fix - and as it stands, it isn't an easy project to undertake - especially alone and with limited knowledge. I'm willing to get my hands dirty, and reasonably competent - but don't have the confidence to go it alone - and I'm so miserable about it that I can't even look at the car at the moment.

Not the Midget Registers fault that I'm sort of regretting the whole thing - and was probably unfair of me to rant. I love the car, and I'm dying to get it sorted - which makes the whole situation worse.

And now I've got myself in an overly emotional ridiculous girlie state just by typing this - so I'm going to go and kick the cat a bit til I feel better.
Ally

oi!
kick the tyres not the cat !
David Smith

Ally, don't get despondent about it. These projects always have their ups and downs and at least you have your other car as well. The other thing is that you should have more confidence in your own abilities. Just because you haven't done something before doesn't mean that you can't do it, or you would never try anything new! There is no reason that you cannot tackle some of the work yourself, without waiting for these fickle friends. Just set yourself a bit of time and get on with it!
I have always messed around with cars. But when I got my first Midget it was in a very similar condition to yours. Failed MOT; needed both sills replaced and various other jobs. I had never welded before then but I bought a MIG and 2 weeks later had fitted sills to both sides done various other jobs new to me and it had passed its MOT. So why don't you just get stuck in and see what you can achieve. You just might surprise yourself - and you will certainly surprise your friends!

Guy

Or organise a weekend event along the lines of the American "OSH*T" gatherings (Organisation 0f Spridget Handymen In Transit) who used to (maybe still do ?) get together to sort out or rebuild Spridgets for others. They famously did a complete Bugeye rebuild over the course of one weekend in 2006 - known as the Buster Cluster weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs1klEzra24

(Sadly, at least 2 of those featuring in that video have since died, Paul A and Frank C, RIP )

Guy

I know I'm being wet! I should just bite the bullet, dig out my library of Midget books, and go and do it.

Not much fun on your own though, and I'm scared stiff of doing something silly and wrecking the car!

I will snap out of it - soon - I hope.

David - what is the point of having cats if you can't kick them? I can't kick the tyres because they are on the car, and I don't want to look at the car at the moment!
Ally

Ally,
sorry to hear this, I'd go along with Guy and encourage you to give it a go

I'd also suggest you do whatever you have to get the others to help you but your nature is probably to nice to do this

sorry, again, but now I turn into the nasty villain, the doubter, the pessimist - you’ve learnt, or more likely been reminded, of one of life’s lessons – keen friends soon disappear when someone brings their talked about ideas to reality and now input is required

bit like suggesting there’s not much work to doing something so someone (else) should get on and do it, like sort a Register – and I’m not getting at you here (or anyone else) you volunteered to help with this too, (I, like most didn’t)

now here’s the sensible or miserable old git bit, depending on how you look at it, and I’m not suggesting you are anywhere near or might ever be, but sometimes after a good effort you have to be logical and cut your losses – that will upset a few here but it is good advice and that logic will be your own not mine or others

I’m sure you’ll get great reward from the project but if it becomes too much of a loss in anyway then cut that loss and pass on the project

Good luck
Nigel At

OK Ally lets not worry about what has been suggested in anger and concentrate on a happy future. :)

Midget restoration is not easy and I do not have the confidence of Guy that anyone can tackle it but what do I know? however if he inspires you then that will be a good thing. On the other hand I think jumping in at the deep end is not as good as buying a decent car to start with an effectively having a "paddle" first before tying to swim the channel!! :)

I am not sure why you chose to try and contact Dennis? on the website there is an online form for rgistration and also in the contact tab Graham Springthorpe is identified as the REGISTRAR, clicking on his name opens up the possibility to send him an email. I think that would be the best thing to do.

Dennis is a very busy man indeed and along with starting up a new company he works with the Silverstone organising group, and also the Safety Fast! magazine editorial group. I know that is no excuse but it is probably a good reason why he has not found time to do your research, please give him a break he is an extremely pleasent gentleman and a historian of Spridgets absolutely second to none.

Please try Graham and hopefully he can at least register your car and speak to you.

If you would like to help out with the register then you can contact Mike Parker and he will speak to you about things, (Mike is also a skilled Spridget mechanic probably far better than I will ever be!!) again contact him via the contacts page of the website.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Damned if I'm going to quit! If I have to do it myself with a book in one hand, then that's what I'll do.

I'm frustrated and disappointed at the moment - but I'll get over it. My main worry is that the car has been sitting for so many years that I don't know what's wrong, where to start, and how big a job it is going to be - and no experience with the marque means no frame of reference. If it was an F, I would know exactly how it was supposed to sound/feel etc, and which bits were most likely to be knackered.On the Midget, I haven't a clue!

Interestingly, the moment you mentioned throwing the towel in, I came over all womens lib - and I'm now going out to the garage to give the car a pat and admire the lovely new sills!
Ally

Ahh, you've done the sills? That was quick! See, I knew you could do it!
What's next on the list?
Guy

>>and I'm now going out to the garage to give the car a pat and admire the lovely new sills!<<
I'm not sure that's very women's lib :)

I've no real idea as I've never restored a car but it'll almost all be about bodywork so pat the sills gently :)
Nigel At

Bob,

Thanks for that. For some reason I had completely missed the contacts page on the Midget Register site. I emailed Dennis whilst still on the MGCC Midget Register page, then filled in the "Register online" form after clicking through to the Midget Register site. Then, having Dennis' email address in my contacts, that's the one I continued to use.

I haven't actually asked anyone to "do my research". That makes it sound like I've been chucking a diva at the Register people.

As I said before, my beef was that I had no response to my emails. Becoming clear that I need to speak to other people at the Register now, which I will now do.

Thanks for putting me straight!
Ally

I didn't do the sills Guy. I got fed up with waiting for help, so got the guy who looks after my F to come out and do them. I have refurbed the wheels, ripped out most of the interior and removed the bumpers.

Need to sort out the brakes and clutch next - both pedals are on the floor.

I think I'm fed up because I wanted to at least start it up on October 2nd as my birthday present to myself - and I doubt that's going to happen now.
Ally

How very dare you Nigel - my sills would withstand a battering from a crazed elephant!!
Ally

It was a joke Ally.

Brakes next then.
Start with a close, inch by inch look at the condition of the pipes. Look along the brake lines for corrosion or damage. Check the rubber hose sections ( 3 of them) for cracking. Do this by bending the hose and seeing if any surface cracks open up. If they do, then you will need to fit new hoses.

Check out the rear brakes. Jack up the rear of the car, set it securely on axle stands and remove the wheels.
Remove the rear brake drums (handbrake off !) You may need to turn the adjuster on the backplate out a bit to release the brake shoes. It may be seized and need persuasion Take a photo ( for reference) of the shoes and springs. Do only one side at a time so you have the other for reference. Clean off any dust from the shoes and drums (wear a face mask, the dust can be nasty stuff)

Check that the rear cylinders are not leaking by looking under the edge of the cylinder dust seal. If all is well then replace the drums and turn the adjuster so that the shoes just rub lightly. Snatch the handbrake lever up a few times to help centre the shoes. If the rear cylinders are leaking, they are cheap and better just replaced.
Guy

That's really really helpful Guy - thank you! I shall push the beast out of the garage this weekend and do just that. Have already decided to repipe brakes and clutch - seems sensible after such a long lay up, and I have the technology. Rubber hoses look very sound, but again - they've been sitting there doing nothing since 1992!
Ally

Great stuff Ally

I suspect there will be a lot of Spridget enthusiasts at Abingdon and club HQ on this Sunday as Roy and his mate set off on his next adventure in their Midgets from the centre of Abingdon during Sunday afternoon.

I am certainly planning on giving them my support perhaps you would like to attend and have a chat with fellow Spridget enthusiast. ?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Chin up Ally :-) I'm sure there are always depressing parts of restorations big or small!

I have been fed up with mine for over a fortnight, all it took to cheer me up (strangely) was some new drill bits! I was getting sick of trying to drill out spot welds with duff bits and it was doing my nut, new bits = job done = new enthusiasm!

Anyway, any project will eb and flow like that.

As long as you have some sense and a rough idea of how a car works (as I'm sure you do) I'm sure you won't do any permenant damage. I bought my Midget a year ago now and still just 'winging it' with only the moss diagrams for reference!

Cheers,
Malcolm (note you can now see my vehicle profile and I am no longer just called 'M' thanks Nigel!)

Malcolm Le Chevalier

>>How very dare you Nigel - my sills would withstand a battering from a crazed elephant!!<<

I didn't know they were fitted - if they're that strong the rest of the bodywork might buckle with them :)

great idea of Guy's to take photos, lots of them and notes nut don't assume the way anything that is fitted or the way it is fitted is the best or correcet way or correct part or component always check and cross reference

I've got loads of general notes but I'm not sure you'd like my approach to these things
Nigel At

Nigel - notes of great interest!
Bob - was thinking about it, and if I get the coil packs changed on the F, which is being an ar*e at the moment, I may well head over.
See that? Not bothered in the slightest about fiddling with the F - but having kittens about touching the Midget!

Malcolm - I think we are spiritual twins! Your garage is a far more practical size than mine - I have to push Fidget out to get anything done. Doubly difficult at present as the spare wheel is on, and the tyre is flat as a pancake despite much pumping. Feel a shot of tyre weld coming on...
Ally

I wish I could say it was my own garage. I have to pay a sizable amount of rent for my sizeable amount of space.

As my girlfriend keeps reminding me, I have "wasted" so much on the car I could have saved up and bought a house with a garage by now. ho hum!

Malcolm
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Alerted to some of the comments being made on this BBS about the MG Midget Register by a fellow committee member, may I say that I attend to about a dozen enquiries per month regarding car histories, currently trying to confirm some details of a car recently imported into Germany, usually to the enquirers satisfaction, and can categorically say that I have never received any request from anyone called "Ally".

Therefore if "Ally" would like to get in touch via the phone, email, or letter, I'll do my best to answer any questions he or she has regarding their car. (Must say from looking through all this, the lack of understanding of how a car receives its originally registration number is truly astounding)!
DR Wharf

Dennis,

I have on 4 separate occasions sent an email to the email address published on the MGCC Midget Register page (dennis(at)sailor368.plus.com) If you haven't received them, then that would explain why I haven't had a response.
As stated earlier on the thread, I am already in a bit of a state about the situation with the car - and probably over reacted as a result. I don't wish to cause any bad feeling, so apologies if you haven't seen the increasingly plaintive emails I refer to.

I also filled in the register online form, and haven't heard anything - but wasn't sure what the protocol was; whether registering would result in any contact.

Ally

Ally

sorry if this isn't written well I'm rushing

my notes: I just cover general things mostly the obvious but those things tends to get overlooked of forgotten when in interesting or difficult phases

mostly the advice is ignored - like I advised one chap several times to always keep a battery and its connections all in good condition especially when sorting engine or electrical problems, once he got his replacement engine in he couldn’t get it started and got very frustrated - until the next day when he borrowed a battery off another car and then his car fired instantly and was running within a few more attempts and adjustments – if he’d had read and followed the advice he wouldn’t have wasted that time

if you email me tonight I'll send you an unedited Zipped file of notes

or if you don’t know about or can’t unzip a file then I’ll have to sort it after I get back from our week’s tour of Wales, which starts tomorrow, and I can edit notes to send as required

nigel atkins (one word) at bt internet (one word) dot com
Nigel At

I may not be able to fix a Midget, but I can unzip a file! I spend my working week trying to talk convincingly about high level technology - it's thrilling stuff.

Email on the way
Ally

sorry as a youngster didn't know about it I thought it might be old technology
Nigel At

I'm young enough to like the flashy new stuff, and old enough to appreciate the more traditional techniques!!
Ally

Hi DR Wharf,
are you saying that there isn't an accurate description on here that says how a car gets registered? I have to be honest, I have never tried to find out before, and have never needed to, since I have never owned a new car or any other vehicle that has to be registered. So how exactly is it registered and given it's number plate?

Hi Rob, ok thanks I'll email you. I had no idea that loads of records were disposed of by DVLA. Was that made public? Why would they do that?

Anyway I'm intrigued to know about this shady organization who has some the records. Were they found in a skip round the back of the DVLA? lol.
Lawrence Slater

Just wanted it on the record that a - I am mortally embarrassed about having such a tantrum last night and being rude about the Register officials, and b- I have had email conversations with both Dennis Wharf and Graham Springthorpe today - both of whom couldn't have been more helpful.

and no cats were harmed during the making of the strop...
Ally

Glad it's all sorted Ally, and I would hope that others take your example and have things resolved in the quickest and easiest ways possible :)
rachmacb

I can't take any credit! A good fairy appeared and made everything alright again!
Ally

A bit of a hornets nest woken here but at least we can all 'get involved'

Rach - I have volunteered to be the MASC Devon Rep and I appreciate what its like to run organisations that rely on good faith etc etc. Its never eay and how we overcome peoples reluctance I do not know.

Bob - my comment may have been a bit tongue in cheek but if its for or should I say run by the MGCC why should I submit details if I am not a member of that club or indeed possibly any club?

Rach again - the Register Road Run - AND the Aldon shoot out - I have got no details to go on but having emailed MASC members here in Devon and Cornwall I go 5 replies from 13 emails sent - 2 came back unknown. It does seem that people are perhaps not willing to get involved until they do - if that makes sense. Also distance, time and costs all come to play. I would have loved to have gone to Silverstone this year and driven on the track but SWMBO tells me the coffers are bare.

I hope no onehas been 'wounded' in some of the exchanges above - lets hope for some fine weather and some great motoring.
Dave
Dave Price

Aldon shoot-out: see thread in 'Events' ... exactly where you'd expect these things to be. [We should either use this heading, or it should be removed IMO.]

BTW - the shoot-out isn't just for the benefit of cmopetition drivers and modifiers... there's normally plenty of scope to improve the timing and fueling of standard cars. I can't remember anyone coming away from the RR without signficant improvement.

Apart from the 2 experienced RR operators, there will be at least 2 people from the MGCC Midget Register there to assist, as usual.

Register your interest on the thread, and I am sure someone will be in contact.

A
Anthony Cutler

Dave I see that you have done the MASC thing but I do remember months ago giving you the details of the mgcc Devon and Cornwall man as he has a lovely midget and he did say you'd not been in touch!

As for events - welcome to the world of spending hours putting things on for a total lack of interest!

Ally - I suspect many would describe your fairy as a bull in a china shop, but at least something was sorted!
rachmacb

Why should you submit details Dave you ask??

Well it is a personal thing really and a desire to maintain our heritage irrespective of how you feel about different clubs.

As an example Gary puts in a lot of effort trying to amass as much info and photos as possible about Frogeye sprites, Does it matter if he is a member of the London and district pigeon fanciers association? no all that matters is do you think it is a worthwhile task that could use support?. Of course it is and if you had a Frogeye then why would you not want to contribute?

Mothy is the same he is collecting information about W and P and hardtops in general, worthwhile? yes, so why not the Midget register?

Being a member of a club is a different story. I like many 100s of other owners have been a member of the MGCC for 30/40 years. In that time I have forged 100s of lifelong friendships. My wife and I now regularly go on holidays with 6 of 7 other couples who we have become lifelong friends with due to the MGCC. It has given me the opportunity to win 3 national racing championships, I have won numerous awards for Auto testing and enjoyed hundreds of social events. For 30 years plus I have been able to visit Silverstone and enjoy a wonderful weekend of sport and friendship. Naturally I have also given a lot back without question, I do not care too much how that is received I simply enjoy giving back what I have taken.

Now if the club you chose to support gives you what you want then that is fine! But always remember you only get back what you put in! Life can be so wonderful.

Bob Turbo Midget England

Mine's been on the MGCC Midget register for years and it's not even an MG.
I've been lucky with the frogeye database as I have the permission of previous or current owners or the photographer to put the images up. The registration numbers are active as keywords so usually a current or previous owner doing a google search should find a link to their old car if its there.
Although I have about 1100 Mk1 Sprites on the photographic database I have about another 500 images which I can't put up as I don't have the owner/photographer's permission.
When curent or previous owners contact me (which is becoming a more regular occurance)about a specific car and I have some kind of contact detail for enother ex owner, I will ask that person if they mind me putting the two of them in direct contact. I haven't had anyone say refuse as yet.
The more places that our cars are registered, the better.
Gary & Gaps

MMMMMMMMMM - this seesm to be going on and on!!!

Bob - as I said at the top of the thread I am going to enter the details when the V5 is unearthed from the office (spare room. I was posing a question to see what others think not casting doubts over any or all clubs.

Why did I join MASC - when I first got the car and was searching the web for tips, help etc it was the first once that sprang out at me. I have no ill feelings to MGCC, MGOC or any others. I would also go on to say that drivers of any MG,regardless of type are equal in my eyes. Now as for triumph owners ............ LOL

Rach - I honestly can not remember any details - could have been on here of course and I missed it - but please forward details once more. Any help or guidance is better than non.

Anthony - I agree with the events page comment - does it get used as it should? I personaly rarely look at it and use here ( General) or Technical if I am honest.

When I said I have no details I was referring to figures re numbers who read, digest and then apply not that the actual event was taking place. Less than 50% of the members replied to the initial email I sent and as Rach said - "As for events - welcome to the world of spending hours putting things on for a total lack of interest!"
How do we overcome this inertia? I am at present stuck for ideas.

Dave
Dave Price

Dave - by all means I'll do what I can - I'll e-mail you directly, but, it won't be before this evening if that's ok.
rachmacb

When the DLVA was formed it slowly took over the county and borough car registration offices - closing most of them.

Some Counties and Boroughs preserved their old records some did not. For instance Essex CC has a pretty fully set (which I used to reclaim the original registration of my BSA Motorbike) but these only give the details of the first owner) later records would depend on where the vehicle was located and taxed. In Essex, Southend Borough Council also issued registrations but dumped all their old records when the DVLA took over. As did the GLC for London Records.

Assuming people understand the old system of registrations ie in RX 1243 the RX is the location of registration as FC in DFC123 and HG in HGT123H etc the best details for the source of the location of old existing registration records is the Kithead Trust.

Here is the website - again another operation run by volunteers so be patient. Lot of info on their website.
http://www.kitheadtrust.org.uk/vehicle_records_5.html

George
G R Wilder

This thread was discussed between 04/09/2011 and 10/09/2011

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