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MG Midget and Sprite General - Itches to scratch

Hi I'm new to this forum but have owned Midgets for 30years or so although my last one has been in storage for the last 24years :0. Soon to be pulled out of storage to finish the 'tidying up' I started all those years ago before houses, kids, work and other projects got in the way. My wife and I went on our honeymoon in it and I have promised her it will be finished for our 25th anniversary!!! thats next july:) Some hope looking at the list of other jobs to do.
Anyway thats not the reason for this post. Over the years my mind has wondered to creating two variations of the midget, 1) a very light weight road legal track day car, possibly with a bike engine (I currently have a Caterham Fireblade). The advantages of such an engine is the obvious reduction in weight but also an instant power boost to around 130hp without any tuning, which would give significant performance benefits to the asthmatic midget:)My question is has anybody installed a bike engine in a midget and if so is there a prefered bodyshell(Mk), problems etc? and 2) is something a little bit more sober and that is a sports estate based on a midget. I know there are the Ashley sportsback etc but this would have an upright rear tailgate with a flat loading area( admittedly not large but sufficient for my purposes). Has anyone know of or even built one themselves? Any thoughts? May be I am bit too ambicious considering the 20 odd years its taken me to get to the one I have already but I would appreciate some response.
td ayles

My Thoughts,

1). Never too late.
2). I like the sound of a flat bed Spridget.
3). Blimey. 20 years with those thoughts running around.:)

Others will be along with all manner of suggestions, some of which are proabably leave it as it is and just get in on the road, and others still, will give you all the good info you need.

Any minute now, Nigel will introduce the owners manual. :P

Enjoy.
Lawrence Slater

1 needs considerable weight loss as the absence of torque and flywheel always make it a bit hard to get away

2 sounds great!

what midget do you have?
Onno Könemann

I've seen pictures of a pick-up midget, a grey one.
But because of my AAAD I can't rememeber when. It was via this forum though.
Alex G Matla

I have read of a Midget with a Suzuki Hayabusa engine. There are issues - like no reverse. The example I read about had a separate gearbox to verse the drive, meaning it had all 10 gears in reverse as well as forward.
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

Sorry just to clarify my existing midget is fairly original(even the steering wheel) hence originally 'tidying up'. Its a 1978 1500 in white. I would not use this for either of the two ideas but would buy suitable resto projects to work on, hence why I asked which bodyshells would be best for the lightweight. I'm sure the MG Mk1 shells were alot lighter that even the 1100/1275 shells. The quarter elliptic's would not be to much of a problem as the axle would need to be remounted/resprung/uprated with new ratio diff for 130hp. My Caterham runs a 3.1 diff.

where as the estate I would probably go for a 1500 shell, keeping the standard engine for its power and torque, over a 1275, to deal with possible greater weight (extra glass,tailgate and roof etc)There are also more of them and cheaper than the 1275 cars. The rubber bumbers would be replaced with chrome.
td ayles

This is the grey pick-up that I saw at Stoneleigh a few years back...

D O'Neill

and a Kawasaki ZZR-engined Midget...

D O'Neill

For both projects I would use a 1500 as a base.

You would haver to do a considerable amount of weight shedding any way and a 1500 is just a cheaper base.

I'd say take a 1500 project
-lose all the panels and replace with Fiberglass (might even replace the whole back for FG)
-cut off the front 1500 bumper legs
-fit a full rollcage
-lose the screen and top (saves weight)
-fit an alloy toneau over the pasengers side
-front fit a frontline suspention with thick ARB
-rear keep the axle (but fit a LSD and stronger halfshafts)and start with a panhard and anti tramp bars
-stock brakes should be a nice start because of all the weight you shed (remember it is turning kinetic energy
in to heat and losing weight means losing kinetic energy)

It should be doable to make that in to a mot able trackday toy
Onno Könemann

For inspiration on the estate idea here is one of the two "elanbulances" built. Could be equally doable on a midget?

Matt1275Bucks

The Midget 'Shooting-Brake'? Why didn't they think of that 45 years ago?!

Your other idea is something I've thought of for mine but will probably never get round to! You see plenty of K engined and a few bike engined Midgets but not many that are light as well. My car currently weighs about 630kgs (A series) and is road legal so the idea of ditching the heavy engine for a bike engine has always interested me. Not sure what the weight saving would be but it must be at least half the weight of an A series and Type 9 box.

The downside would be (I think!) a lack of tourque, difficult to find the right gearing, the squential box - great for track use but maybe not great on the road. I find my 6 speed bike a bit of a pain going up and down the box all the time.

There are lots of companies out there that specialise in fitting bike engines to cars so might be a good idea to contact one to get an idea of what would be involved.
John Payne

The bike engined Spridget I saw sprinting was visibly slower than the two normally aspirated but tuned Spridgets competing at the same venue.
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Here's the one I've seen at sprints built by Lynx AE:

http://www.lynxae.co.uk/Gallery-bikeeng%20cars.htm

You're right Daniel, in fact if it was about 3 years ago at Curborough I think I was one of the faster cars!! It was quite a heavy road car though so I've always wondered what my car would be like with a similar engine.



John Payne

Yeah - one can take off alot of weight with a metal saw, but, you do sort of run out of things that you can remove and still have a car left ....!

However, I have seen a cross member with so many holes cut in it it looked like a bit of delicate Belgian lace - and it was one a racing B!!!!
rachmacb

Funny thing is I was considering the "Estate" version a couple of years ago

Like a lower sleeker Mini Clubman rear end, which might just possible be a source of roof and glazing assemblies.

What colour do you want the drawing in? I spent hours doodling with MS Paint...

Bill 1

That looks pretty good Bill,

The back reminds me of my old all-steel mini Countryman. Similar colour too. Can't remember the name of the colour, South Sea Island Blue or something silly like that. Pity that the Midget's wheelbase can't be stretched to match the Mini's rear wheel arches.

Dave
D MATTHEWS

Bill,
If BMC had thought of that, they might have sold millions. You should patent that, and start making them.
Lawrence Slater

Having had a Blackbird engined kit car, I'd be careful fitting any <1000cc bike engine to a Midget. Unless you can get the weight down to about 500 kg or less you'll be putting a lot of stress on the clutch and gear set. Not saying it can't be done, but not a good idea at the usual road weight of a Midget. I considered this as an option when looking at engines for my Sprite, but overall I don't think it's a good idea.

A light weight car derived engine would be my choice. Having 130 bhp but little torque will see you quick at low speeds but compromised at higher speeds, just as 7's are, especially those with windscreens. Having 130 bhp and a matching torque figure will see you go just as quick at slower speeds, but give better punch at higher speeds. This may not matter for what you in have in mind, but for me I wanted my car to pull as hard at 80-90 as it will at 20. My V6 engined Sprite should be geared for 145 at 6,000 rpm in 5th, so I have both a nice cruising range and a good amount of top end left to spare at most times. I'd look at either the K series, Ford's Zetec, the Duratec as the MX-5 uses it and as such there's a gearbox for it off the shelf, or Toyota's 4age engine. Or even the whole MX-5 drivetrain, as it's a VVC version of the Duratec so should be easy to tune.
S Overy

Thanks for your comments. Some interesting ideas all round and plenty more to think about and research especially on the weight side of a stripped down midget. My caterham is under 400kg so low torque not too much of a problem but runs out of puff at about 110mph, ok on the road but limiting on track.

Bill- nice illustration. I must admit I would probably build it in a 'woody' style. probably far easier as a one off. Still thinking of how best to form the roof, possibly FG using an existing FG hardtop as start for the front and form a removable internal mould for the rest, alternatively get someone to roll one in ali (expensive) or form it in timber (cold moulding-boat building technique). Any other suggestions?
td ayles

The Spridget pick up was built by Brian Wheeler the chap that also built the replica Healey SR race car and supplies new Frogeye tubs. The colour was what seems a rare colour these days - Nevada Beige.
A Anstead

look in the background, John Britten tow car - a sprite pick up!

Dan Cusworth

and an "octagon" Lotus élan shooting break

Dan Cusworth

I remember the Hexagon Garage just down the road from me in Highgate. It always had exotic cars. They later became a BMW dealership and are now a block of luxury flats (nothing to do with with me).
Gary & Gaps

Well if you are going to make an estate of the thing, why not go the whole way and fit an elevating roof!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2010-LATEST-SHAPE-FIAT-DOBLO-ELEVATING-ROOF-KITS-/250928362587?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3a6c7ef45b
Guy

Don't take this the wrong way, but to make the estate version could you graft on the back end of a...















...Reliant Robin?
Jonathan Severn

Reliant Robins.... that brings back memories of my Dad's various Reliants (all 3 wheelers no Scimitars I'm afraid).

The gearboxes in them were really good and precise as I recall.... I wonder what they were from or who made them for Reliant!
Andrew McGee

Or if you want to do things a little different

http://www.arrse.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=49937&stc=1&d=1315297815
Gary & Gaps

I don't mind that at all. What would it be called..

an Ex-K Moguar?
Andrew McGee

Or a Jaguman?
Lawrence Slater

An XK Traveller
Gary & Gaps

Gary- funny you should show that photo, it is somthing along the line I was thinking of, but I must admit it I was thinking of somthing alot lower and hopefully of better proportions. One of the biggest problems I forsee is maintaing the possible removal of the windscreen and surround incase of breakage. I have condidered using the 'planted' surround used on the Sebring Sprites but the problem with these is that they are moulded for removable side screens not quarterlights, so as I see it any addition to the rear has to be removable or possibly just the roof panel. I think it can be done in a 'woody'form but may be quite wobbly when off the car but that could have temparorily braced if needed.
td ayles

This thread was discussed between 12/11/2011 and 15/11/2011

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