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MG Midget and Sprite General - Gasless welders

Does anyone have any experience/opinions on using a gasless MIG welder? I will (hopefully) be ordering a welder this week and whilst the Clarke pro 90 (gas) welder looks pretty good, the fact you can get a gasless welder for £80 less and only have to worry about one consumable is also quite tempting.

I could get a nice boot rack for the £80... ;-)

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Not used one but apparently they're much trickier to work with if you're new to them. Good if you're working outside as your shield doesn't get blown away the same but much harder to get a nice weld than when using Argo-shield Lite. It is however possible, my welding tutor managed to get a nice result in the workshop but even he was commenting that he'd never seen it behave so well & he was one of those people who seem to be able to weld anything with anything!
Think the flux coated wire might be more expensive too, but that's probably not such an issue.
Best tip I got on buying a MIG was to get the one that could go down the lowest, not the max power. Its awfully easy to blow through thin sheet...
-Craig
C Robertson

That was what was good about the Clarke, it went down to 25 amps! You could weld tinfoil with that lower setting.

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

I had one. It was a cheap Chinese one and it was pretty useless. It spattered badly and I couldn't keep an arc going. It wouldn't feed wire very well, either. I eventually threw it away.

I recently bought a relatively inexpensive MIG that uses gas and it makes a world of difference.

Get the one that uses gas, you won't regret it. If you get the gasless you probably will. Especially if you have any thoughts of welding body panels and the like.

David Littlefield

we use gasless and manage OK; my son can do half-decent continuous welds, mine are more splodgy. It's OK on sheet for MOT repairs where it doesn't show - but if you are rebuilding a bodyshell I would go for the best-quality gas unit you can afford.
David Smith

If you're doing plug welds to replicate the factory spot welds then a gasless unit will do, but for more continuous welds such as butt welding in a patch panel they are a pain. The flux cored wire leaves a coating of glass like flux on the weld which must be chipped off before welding again in that area. That means a lot of clean up when tack welding and then going back over that area to tack between the welds. That's where a gas type welder is much easier to use, no need to clean the area each time, so the work goes much faster. In the long run I think you'll be much happier if you spend a few more bob and get the gas type welder.
If you get a major brand such as a Clarke, then you can get parts support and replacement tips etc, so you might look for a used one on e-bay or similar that someone else has used and doesn't need anymore. You should be able to get a used unit for around 150 pounds or so.
B Young

I have a china made gasless mig welder from harbor freight.

If you can afford a gas mig, then definatly go for it, my next welder will definatly be

the good news is... It doent take up alot of space, andits cheap to run, and they run on basic house current... not some work horse elecric like 220

for me its almost perfect.. I only need a welder about 3-4 times a year, anything that is structral or vary important I take it to a pro

But I have to warn you ... Its an UGLY weld, with lots of spater

Here are some tips that Ive found that makes these little welders work well

1. keep the tip clean, I re-file mine each time Im done

2. keep the tip as close to the work as you can.. like an inch away

3. dont drag it, push it in at an angle

4. OBAY the duty cycle.. if its 6 minutes an hour, well thats why you paid with pocket change

6 keep the cord with the wire feed as straight as possiable... that helps alot

7. make the to be welded area as bright and shinny metal as possiable ... grind it before hand

8. make the best ground you can get... a great ground it just huge to the performance

9.... This is a great tip... get a windex bottle and fill with water and just before you start to weld spray the work down... it seems to burn a little hotter, bot ity makes alot better contact

10 another thing Ive found that works really well get some sissors or wire cutters and each time before you go to make the elctric stick/contact... turn off the welder and cut the end of the mig wire off so you have a freash mig wire that is clean and ready to go. then turn it on and make your stick

anyway those are things ive found to get the most out of my gasless mig.


Prop
Prop

Prop,

House current in the UK, as the OP is, is 230V - 240V single phase 13A supply from the normal wall socket so you can get more welder connected easily. IIRC some European countries like Germany regular run 3 phase into domestics homes so they can run all sorts of things we can dream of.

My advice would be to ask around and see what is about tucked under workbenches as I've known a few people that have bought cheap MIGs and not been happy with them and put them away. Often the problem is knowing how to set them up. I was given a Clarke 90A MIG a few years ago that ran sweet and would be fine for car repair, another 150A was more troublesome to get running right but was sorted in the end satisfactorily, the trouble largely being the feed roller and poor friction regulation of the wire spool.
David Billington

My experience is don't get a cheap welder unless you want cheap welds. I had a cheap chinesse gasless mig from harbor freight also. Biggest piece of crap. I now have a decent Lincoln electric gas welder. It can be wired up for gasless too. There is night and day difference between the cheap gasless and a decent welder running gasless. Gasless is more work on the cleanup and not great for quality visible welds. I would say get a decent welder that fan do both. When Uou have the extra cash get a regulator and bottle for it.
J Wirtes

I should have mentioned both the 90A and 150A welders I was referring to were gas shielded.

The only time I've used gasless was a mates but I was able produce better welds then he was having never uaed it before, I wouldn't say I was a more experienced welder as he has done quite a bit also but mostly stick or spray transfer MIG. That was welding one of his kids peddle go kart frames where the original welds were crap. The welds weren't as nice as with gas but cleaned up OK. Not tried it on car sheet metal.

Reminds me of a guy in the AH club that was trying to weld aluminium with a cheap MIG and had little success so he asked a mate that worked as a welder at British Aerospace IIRC and he used the same welder and did the job easily.

I would estimate that with MIG about 75% of the work is knowing how to set up the machine for the welding situation, once set the welding should be easy. Learning how to correct the problems, especially with the low end products, is part of the learning curve.
David Billington

david your right in so many ways...btw, sorry I for got you guys have high electric output in your houses

we only (and thank god) have 120V set ups in our homes ... yeah Im sure I want to take that bite the next time im wall papering around a wall outlet...lol

Ive oftn wondered if we cant just make an extension cord... all be it a Huge fat one and plug it into the electric stove/oven or the clothes dryer electrical outlet to power a 220V welder


orop
Prop

Prop, I've done that in several houses I've owned over the years, run a tap off the dryer plug for my welder. Most dryers run on 30 amp 220 v service and most ranges run on 50 amp service, either will do for a MIG or arc welder if you aren't welding 1/2" stock and run a lot of amps. Wben I spliced into the dryer circuit for my welder I just had to make sure the wife didn't try to dry clothes when I was welding or I'd trip the breaker and shut both down.
Most all houses here have 220v service, they just take on leg to ground to get the 110v for small appliances and leg to leg (phase to phase) for 220v.
B Young

David wrote "I would estimate that with MIG about 75% of the work is knowing how to set up the machine for the welding situation, once set the welding should be easy. Learning how to correct the problems, especially with the low end products, is part of the learning curve."

How true. I bought a cheap Clarke 100E MIG welder a number of years ago. I went for the one with gas. I played around with it and just made a mess. Chatting with a friend who is an expert welder, I told him that I had made a mistake and bought a pile of junk. A few days later he came over to my garage, set up the MIG and made a perfect weld straight away, first time of use. He then taught me how to do it, and I ended up rebuilding my car from the sills up perfectly well.

I've never tried gasless. The gas is a pain as it so expensive, but I rent a bottle from BOC and just put up with the cost.
Mike Howlett

Hi

I have an SIP 145 which can be used with gas or gasless, I was told that if I use it gasless, I should change the +ve and -ve lead around, I tried it both ways but couldn't see a difference!!

It causes a lot of spatter which is difficult to clean off though :(


John :)
j b biggs

well, I was fortunate enough to recieve a small promotion at work so might splash out on the clarke pro 90 gas welder after all!

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Malcolm,
Whichever you go for, I found this site quite helpful:
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

Guy
Guy

yeah, that is a great site Guy.

I did a bit of welding at uni, MIG, TIG and arc and TIG welding of alu but its been a few years so we shall see how things go! :-)

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

This thread was discussed between 21/03/2011 and 02/04/2011

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