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MG Midget and Sprite General - fuel problems

Can anyone point me in the right direction, I am the new proud owner of a 77 midget (many years no hols) 2nd childhood, Ok the engine runs fine when it starts, It will start on key almost instantly but dies almost as quick, after doing this say 5 times the engine runs fine, I have cleaned and stripped the fuel lift pump (mechanical) and it appears to be working fine, but after running it this morning whilst trying to fix problem i found the carb float chamber empty (doesnt help i supose) any suggestions out there, I am sure i saw a comment about a pipe some where down to the tank that cracks, but cant find the link about it,
thanks Brian
B D Vasey

as a test, remove the pipe from the carb, turn the engine over - see if it pumps fuel out.
if not, then get someone to pressurize the tank whilst you turn the engine over (seal mouth over filler and blow).
had a similar prob recently with my frogeye.

where in West Yorks are you? - I am in Morley
Mick struggling with the wiring

Hi Mick will try that and also can and pipe in air to try and see if she runs ok like that to narrow options, Its been many years since i worked on these type of engines, But love it as I know with help i will get it sorted,
I live over in Liversedge but the car is down at my Paintshop (Getting a little tight in there) Just at the bottom of M621 Junc3. What do you drive,
B D Vasey

my own car is a 72 midget undergoing a k series conversion, but i am currently driving a 1959 frogeye sprite borrowed from a friend who now lives in Australia.
Mick struggling with the wiring

Then Hi Mick Not wishing to sound dumb I know you have shiny bumpers and i dont but whats a K series conversion and should we continue this discusion on email or is it ok on here.
Brian
B D Vasey

Brian all discussions are welcome and welcome to the mad world of Midgets :)

Kseries is the fitting of an engine (commonly the mgf, but also other modern ones) which are later MG based ones - these are by no means the only engines that can be retrofitted!

There are lots of MGs in Yorks so I hope you get chance to join in in lots of activities.
rachmacb

Thanks for help so far, I have blanked off the fuel pump and tried to run engine with fuel supplied from above, she (?)started ok 2nd time. Then when stopped needed 3 or 4 attempts to start and run although she fired in for a few seconds quite well each time then died, I am now wondering if it is a carb problem, is there a link on stripping and rebuilding carbs, and please excuse my ignorance, should the float chambers be movable as i notice they can be turned side to side quite easly. thanks again all
Brian
B D Vasey

Hi Brian

Based on your observation that the car requires numerous start ups before it eventually starts and runs fine? is that correct?

Then this to my mind suggests the choke is not working correctly. Do you know if the choke is operating correctly?
Bob Turbo Midget England

Hi Bob, and thanks for feedback,
The engine will start almost instantly on key it will run for 5 seconds then die, each time i try to start it the run time is a second or so longer, after say 5 or 6 or 7 attempts (each time starting spot on) the engine then runs fine, until I stop it then we start all over again, I have replace coil I have checked full pump and it is pumping fuel. I dare not take the car out as if it stops a lights or something it could take a few minutes to resart if at all, the plugs are ok the engine runs sweet as a nut when running but will not start again without the above ritual which will be damaging the battery and starter.
I will do what ever needs doing just please some ideas.
Thanks Brian
B D Vasey

Hi Brian that is quality feedback so lets continue. Please keep your spirits up this should be an easy fix with a logical approach.

Ok then if this happens everytime the engine needs to restart either warm or cold then potentially the choke can be ruled out, so you need to do a little test to see if the starter solenoid contacts are working correctly.

What should happen is that when the starter motor is energised then 12 volts is applied to the coil, as the ignition switch is released then a lower voltage is then applied to the coil (about 8 volts). It is not unusual for this lower voltage to not be there and thus the started engine will stop.

The easiest way to test and eliminate this issue is to remove the 2 wires that are attached to the coil +ve and replace them with a wire direct from the battery positive to the coil +ve. With this in place try to start the engine. If it starts and runs then that will be fine and you will need to disconnect this temporary wire to stop the engine.

Do this test and see if the ngine when started remains running each time and give us a shout for what to do next.

Good luck mate.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Thats a new one will try first thing in Morning. that could explain that my brain is telling me that the ignition light is coming on before the engine has stopped but with it happening so quick I thought it was just an ilusion does that help a little
Brian
B D Vasey

YES ITS WORKING
Many many thanks, How do i proceed from here I am afraid the coil and solaniod sytem was not a strong point with me as i was brought up with diesels,
B D Vasey

Have found a wire under the heater unit that is cream with a green tracer that looks as if it should go onto the bottom of the + side of the coil (that would make 3 wires) is it possible this is the problem, photo attached as i cant find any wiring diagram i dare not put it on there without confirmation.

B D Vasey

Brian,

photo's a bit blurred so I'm only suggesting possibly - could that be the white/light green to ballast resistor(?) or starter solonoid - follow that wire back to check

a wiring diagram along with loads more driver informatiom and servicing details and schedule are all in that essential (to you and other owners) Driver's Handbook (Ref: 0058) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html
Nigel At

Hi Brian sorry for not getting back sooner.

OK then the problem is that you appear not to be getting 8 volts to the coil when the ignition switch is in the run position

If you have a meter can you measure the following

On the white and green wire do you have about 8 volts between it and earth when the ignition switch is in the run position?

Also as stated the photo is poor so can you tell me what colour wires are on the 2 coil posts?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Hi Bob
No problem but will have to get back to you tomorrow as car is at my works is it possible to contact you then, if memory serves they are both cream(maybe used to be white) with green tracer on the + side, tried the test again later, worked a treat so still a happy bunny as I know there is an answer eventually.
thanks for bothering
Brian
B D Vasey

Hi mate

Normally you can have 2 white and light green wires on the positive terminal of the coil.

If you remove them you should have about 8 volts on one of them when the ignition switch is in the run position and 12 volts on the other when the ignition switch is in the start position. Obviously one of these wires do not have 8 volts on it when the switch is in the run position. This would mean that the ignition switch is maybe faulty because the wire is fed from the switch when it is in the run position. I am curious however what the other wire is that you have found?

I will be at work tomorrow but I will keep an eye on the BBS and watch for an update. :)
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

took me a second look to see that the wire might have green paint on it

the only white/green I could see was to the line fuse for heater blower ect.
Nigel At

I will detail wires correctly in morning, It is gratifying to know people will still help other people I can assure you I will try and return the assistance to you and other members if i can in the future, (paint problem anyone?)
Brian
B D Vasey

stick with Bob he'll see you right

it's difficult to know what is not standard on a car of this age so take nothing for granted

my car doesn't bother with paint it sheds it faster than a true royal prince's hair

it's nice that you appreciate the help given and say so (not my misdirections though)

reporting the outcome helps others like me that follow the thread
Nigel At

The other "mystery wire" on the coil could lead to an earth point on the body via a hidden switch, providing a form of immobiliser.
Guy

ok early start before work,
2 wires to + (pos) coil both white with green trace
2 wires to - (neg) coil both white with black trace
removed + wires and took reading with ign on run position got 3 volt assume i win a prize for lowest voltage but still runs. I think I know whats coming next (ign switch?)
re the other wire it comes out of the loom on a junction directly below the heater unit and is aprox 6" long and is white with a green trace and could just reach the coil or solaniod but seems as if it hasn't done anything for a while so class it as spare for now.

suggestion for nigel, Try spray glue to stick paint back on, seriously if you are having problems this way send me a pic its usually due to primers being left too long before top coat being put on, they have gone too hard for top coat to bond to, most need doing within 24 hours max or you need to rekey (scratch) primer
Brian
B D Vasey

Long morning I am afraid

If you are anyone else for that matter knows anything about the HSE and ATEX regulations you would be able to appreciate why I have been very busy this last couple of days convincing them that we are doing our best to comply fully with the regs!! all thrown at me when I returned from holiday on Monday.

But enough of my problems and lets get on with something else with a little light relief!

OK mate as you say if the white and green wire in the run position has only 3 volts on it then somewhere there is a poor connection or the ignition switch is not switching too well. ( as I suspect you already know)

I would try and get to it at the ignition switch and have another measure and so on. Not sure if this wire goes through the rev counter on a 1500 Midget?

Just for your information I once used a ballasted coil (the type fitted to your car and uses about 8 volts) with a earlier Midget that had 12 volts continuously to the coil. I had had a faulty coil in France and could only get a ballasted replacement at the point of breakdown. I travelled a further 200 miles in about 6 hours before I found someone with a non ballasted replacement that I was able to fit. The coil performed perfectly during this time although I had my fingers crossed most of the 200 miles! :)
Bob Turbo Midget England

At least the ignition switch wiring is easier to see and work on with a steering lock ignition Bob, far nastier proposition with a behind the dash panel igntion switch.

Bob, my old employers used to "let" us fit ballasted coils to 12v systems with the rider that the user "should" get it changed when it was convenient, as long as they signed a note to that effect.

I once went back to a bloke with "my" ballasted coil still on the car a few years later. Not sure what that says though really.

:-)
Bill 1

It Starts!!!!!!!
followed wiring back cleaned all terminals, found ign switch seemed as if some teminals had been forced, so removed from key section and opened it up (what a lot of bits in there) cleaned all the contacts squared up all the pins and reassembled switch (muchus patience) refit to wires tried with screwdriver before mounting started started 2nd time, (it would have started first time if i had put the wires back on the coil)(Bobs fault he told me to take them off) thanks all of you. my first step with you holding my hand. suddenly Im a happy bunny,only 87 jobs to go.
Bob many many thanks.
Brian
B D Vasey

You did well Brian keep it up and I live in north Lincolnshire so hopefully will see you sometime in the future. :)
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Well done Brian

only yesterday I was saying how many repair jobs boil down to cleaning and/or lubeing

I "repaired" a 25+ year old battery alarm clock by brushing the battery terminal and spraying a bit of electrical contact cleaner through spindle apertures

most servicing boils down to cleaning and/or lubeing too

for your other work on the car I suggest having a can of each of the following handy:
light oil
(thin) spray lubricant
penetrating/releasing fluid such as Plus Gas (WD 40 is not that good)
silicone lubricant (for rubber, nylon, ect)
electrical contact cleaner
anti-seize assembly compound (like Copper Ease)
electrical sealing/protecting products

thanks for the offer of help with paint but a respray is required, was to have been done at the start of the year but I got let down, by the motor trade, who'd have thunk that
Nigel At

This thread was discussed between 21/08/2011 and 25/08/2011

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