British-Cars.org

Welcome to the DMR Site for British Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite General - Found the earth strap

It's well disguised - with a thick layer of black sludgy stickiness - not surprised I couldn't find it before!

So we are correctly earthed - unless the sludge is not an effective conductor, the engine is turning over, fuel is getting to and from the fuel pump, we have a spark at the plugs, but it still wont catch.

I can't figure out what's stopping it bursting into life!!
Ally

I would check the timing. I got to exactly that stage on mine, couldn't get any life from it. Found that the timing was way out. Once that was sorted it went first time
M Adams

spark, fuel, compression

that's it

if you've got all three but not running then I'd suspect that your timing is out, or that the wires are mixed up

re-check your ignition wiring, your points open for number 1 when it is at its compression stroke, and that should do it



Norm
Norm Kerr

Thanks guys. I've got a few people coming over to play next weekend - one is my tame mechanic (although he is supposed to be finishing the welding, one has rebuilt a couple of F's, and the other had better be good at making coffee, as he's useless with cars. Hopefully, between all of us, we can get something happening.
Ally

Ally,

a bad earth wont help, plus a battery and connections in poor condition can added to rather than help with starting

a good battery with fully topped up electrode in all cells and fully charged again will help rather than hinder in problem starting and problem solving of other electric issues

good connections and earthing on starter solonoid and starter motor will also help

after these it's as said fuel or ignition

you need to sit down and look at step by step logical diagnostics rather than a whole load of different ideas at once

Bob and Guy are good at this

Prop, me and others will throw in loads of idea that might help or more likely take you away from step by step logical diagnostics

good battery and connections are always required though - the numbers of cars that wont start or are made a lot more difficult by not having these is I'm afraid endless - number 1 cuses of breakdown call outs

good luck
Nigel Atkins

Timming ...mixed up wires

You never had this car started scence you purchased...

If everything looks hooked up correctly,id be curious if the privious owner put in a new cam, or installed a new timming chain or sprokets...anything th P.O. might have done that would throw out the cam timing by 180 degrees

If you have had the car started and running scence you purchased.... Then avoid the camsaft suggestion

Prop

Battery is brand new - and the battery connectors are in good condition.
I have a new earth strap - will replace the creature from the swamp version next week. Seems silly not to.

Jon (my mechanic) is a bit of a genius when it comes to working his way through and ticking things off. I had hoped to use him a bit less, but have accepted that it's a big job, and not one I can really do alone with no hands on assistance! Have had some great advice and help from here - and hope it continues, but I need my hand holding! In hindsight, something that was actually running might have been a smarter idea for my first project car!
Ally

It hasn't run since I bought it, but the guy I bought it from got it running enough to take a video, which was what persuaded me to buy it! He only had it a week, and didn't do any work to it - bought it to break, then decided it was too nice, so put it straight back on Ebay. Prior to that, it had been dry stored since it was last on the road in 1992.
Ally

The video of him running http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTHNjltDiU4
Ally

if the sludge up earth lead is a braide type then being sludge up it might not be in great condition

but I don't know, I'm not on site, or sight

if you've got a replacement then I'd suggest you put in straight away if you can

I should have also put all connections should be clean, secure and protected

these things may well not be the cause of non-starting on this occassion but they're a basic need for preventing and helping with future problems

the boring basic things have to be fully correct before sucessfully moving on to the 'sexy'(?) stuff of fiddling with engines, timming, carbs, welding and such like

there's another thread running now that might also give you suggestions about starting

a lot of work and problem solving on these cars boils down to cleaning and lubricating so making this a process at the start and as you go along can save time, effoert and frustration later

one of my pet peaves is cars that are difficult or wont start it spoils or prevents the only good part of owning the car for me which is driving them

as good for you as the restoration books is the Porters Manual it also has diagnostic flow charts as well as full servicing instruction (it’s very good but might have a few typos in specifications) – MG Midget and Austin-Healey Sprite Service Guide (Porter Manuals) –
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Midget-Austin-Healey-Sprite-Service-Guide/dp/1899238077

a companion to the Driver's Hanbook of course :)
Nigel Atkins

Another book for the library! My mother was horrified at being asked for tools for Christmas - perhaps she'll be happier aboit a book!
Ally

look at the book as investment and they will save you a lot of money on work and avoiding unecessary work

£8 for the Driver's Handbook will pay you back first time you read it

how about a free! download - I don't know if it actually work as I've not tried it on my aging computer, it's of a fantastic book that tells you all about classics of the 60s + 70s as well as loads more, great clear pictures too - The AA Book of the Car (1970 original) - free download(?) - the 1970(?) 3rd edition – http://www.torrents.net/find/aa+book+of+the+car+3rd+edition/

ETA: from video, jump leads, not much petrol showing, revving whilst still cold (am I being too sensative with that) yes he probably thought he was going to scrap it until he came to his senses

the Halfords Professional and Advanced Professional tools when on special offer are great value - again you don't buy good quality tools they're an investment that pay you back
Nigel Atkins

I've got the Drivers Handbook, and the Workshop manual, and the Haynes Restoration manual, and the Practical Classics - and all the files via email. I'm well and truly libraried up!

I have a fairly decent toolkit, but am lacking a few little bits and bobs. Going to raid Dads tools while I'm home at Christmas - he has a barn full, which he can't use any more due to arthritis. I think it's my daughterly duty to look after them for him!
Ally

Nigey. (And Ally). The earth lead being "sludged" up won't make the slightest bit of difference. Doesn't stop electrons unless it comes between the contacts, and only then if it is the resistive kind of dirt.

Since as I understand it, the engine turns over well, earth is not an issue here.

If the new earth strap is indeed "New", sell it and retain the original if all that's "wrong" with it, is grease/grime. Unless of course money is no object, in which case change it for the hell of it.:)

As for the starting problem.
I haven't followed your other threads. But looking at that vid of the runnning engine, if it's not running now, I would say it's something SIMPLE, that you have inadvertantly done yourself.

I expect the mechanic you mention to have it firing with 5 minutes if he's worthy of the name. Pity your not in Kent, this non qualified mechanic would. :)
Lawrence Slater

I think that is very kind and considerate of you Ally, tools need to be used otherwise they sulk and that wouldn't help your Dad's general health :+)
Graham.
Graham P

Lawrence - I would hold up my hands if I'd done anything to it, but I really haven't. It didn't have a battery in it when I bought it, and I only recently put one in - so have barely touched anything under the bonnet. Fitted the battery, turned the key and it turned over fine, but wouldn't fire up. Checked spark plugs - all of which have a spark, and established that the fuel pump was not sucking, so replaced that, but that's all I've done. I've been too worried about it shorting at the coil connector and sparking like mad to go in solo!
Ally

My father thought it was hilarious Graham! He and I have a very "special" shared sense of humour!
Ally

Ally,
sorry I forgot about your books, it’s me age you know but others might see the posts so can take on the advice (or ignore what they disagree with)

I got a set of Halfords Advanced Professional imperial racket spanners at half price I wished I’d bought two sets as they are so useful

Look for Halfords Advanced Professional or Professional not Halfords – ‘other good makes and suppliers are available’

£10 for set of good screwdrivers - http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_180958_langId_-1_categoryId_165572

now I know these are metric but a lot will fit AF enough for engineers and mechanics to use them plus these feature ratchet flexi-heads, 5 degree movement which are both very useful in a tight space and ¼” bit adaptor so you can also use ¼” sockets - http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_216036_langId_-1_categoryId_165572

or theses with fixed open ends but cover a wider range of sizes so more imperial sizes – you also get ¼” bit adaptor & 20 assorted bits (personally I don’t like those) but you can also use ¼” sockets - http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_229913_langId_-1_categoryId_165572

if you see any Halfords Advanced Professional imperial ratchet spanners please let me know

Lawrence,
I’m not arguing just stating, it was put that the engines turns over so not necessarily that it turns over well

if the earth strap is a braided one and that badly covered in sludge then you may not be able to see if it’s braids are torn plus each end the connections must be clean and secure at the points of contact to be fully working

you'd need to put a meter on it to test it, that will tell you how well it's working at the moment but you'll need to clean it to see how worn or broken it is

the better each component of the starting system is the less strain on the rest of the system and the more chance of starting under less than ideal condition

if components are in just about good enough condition then one weak point could let the system down
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, you could destroy half of the braids in the earth strap, and it would still conduct enough current to allow the s/motor to turn the engine fast enough to allow it to start, all else being ok. :)

How do I know this? Experience. Metering the earth lead is going to an unneccessary extreme. Just mho, of course. :)
Lawrence Slater

once again you confirm my point >>all else being ok. :)<<

why run around with one weak link let alone two or three

rather than disagreeing as usual as no one else is about I'll help by starting at the begining to hopefully help Ally a bit with my next post subject to typing time allowed
Nigel Atkins

Ally,
in the absence of the A-team here my Z-lister advice

starting with fuel

I know stating the obvious is really annoying but the number of times the obvious has been overlooked - or some thing taken for granted and then you find it’s that that’s at fault

check you have plenty of recent-ish fuel in the petrol tank, ignore fuel gauge reading

check the fuel is being pumped – yes I know you have a new pump but never discount an item because it is new

you’ll need a willing assistant to check:
1 the throttle and choke cables actually operate the carb end and that everything moves freely
2 petrol gets to the carbs when you turn the engine over, pipe off carb or filter

sorry got to go
Nigel Atkins

I suggested checking for the earth strap some while ago on another thread because Ally mentioned that the fuel line was sparking. It suggested to me that it was acting as a route to earth in the possible absence of the proper earth strap. This was before any issue about it failing to start.

If they earth strap is connecting electrically, despite being filthy grubby, then l wonder why the fuel pipe was sparking like that.
Guy

Nigel - will check fuel getting to the carbs! If I remember correctly - David Smith said that the throttle cable wasn't original, and it was shorter than he would like to see, but I don't remember his saying that it wasn't working properly.

Guy - I keep coming back to this as well. I'm glad I've found one earth strap, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that the 1500 has two. The other going from the gearbox to the body. Maybe fitting the new one there will help to resolve a poor earthing problem. It didn't spit at the coil when I turned it over today - after fiddling with the boot that doesn't seem to want to fit properly, although I was relying on the word of a sullen 13yr old that we were firework free!

Would a poor earth be enough to prevent it firing though? My old Landrover was an electrical nightmare, but used to start and run fine if it was in the mood!

I've ordered a spark plug tester, and will test them all again at the weekend. They were definitely sparking when we first put the battery in - but knowing MGs as I do, that means nothing!! I have a set of of MGF HT leads which are obviously going to be ridiculously long - but could try with them as I know for sure that they are in A1 condition.

Really frustrated with my own ineptitude!!
Ally

yes a poor earth would prevent the car from starting that's when the most electric juice is required

a speck of crud on a battery terminal or other connection can be enough to prevent a system that isn't at best condition from starting the car

I'm with Guy sparks elsewhere don't sound good

when you try starting the car you could after try feeling the choke cable if it's getting hot then you know you have a poor earth

if you have some jump leads you can use one as a temp earth lead from battery to engine near the starter motor taking care that it wont get caught on any moving parts

also bear in mind even a battery in good condition will weaken with lots of starting attempts

a sullen 13 year old (I blame the parent) may not be the best assistant you really need a reliable assisant to watch carb linkages and that the throttle and choke cables actually operate at the carbs as they should

on fuel side,
a quick thought does the pump need priming if the car hasn't been started for a while(?)

once you've checked fuel is getting to the carbs then you could check that the carb fuel bowls are getting enough fuel in them and that the floats open and shut the needle valves
Nigel Atkins

Ally,
As you are by self confession, not very knowledgable in this situation, I would await the attendance at the weekend of the mechanic you mention.

Normally I say have a go yourself, you won't do any harm. But since its been a while now with little progress in getting it going, I suspect the possibility that new "faults" are being introduced.

So why not bite your itchy fingers until the weekend, and then make sure that when the mechanic gets it going, he also teaches you all you need to know about the basics of ignition, earthing, and any other factors that come up.

Less frustration that way. :)
Lawrence Slater

whilst Lawrence has a point but not because you might have altered something I'm sure you wont want to be totally away from the car but some investigations would be best done with two people present

another basic thing is starting technique, Ally when starting the car:
do you have the clutch pushed in?
push or have your foot on the accelerator?
how far do you pull the choke cable out?

in the mean time and I loathe to say this, reading up on a Haynes might help, Porter too, if you can get your hands on copies (Haynes for repair)

plus you can do other stuff for yourself whilst waiting for a second body:-

you could also just check that the battery doesn't need further refilling or recharging - yes I know but see how many threads where the battery is drained so stops resolution of the problem

check connections and leads are all clean, secure and protected

clean and lubricate carbs and connecting rods, springs, ect. and accelerator pedal

check and clean HT leads and dissy cap outside and in - don't transfer dirt use different lint-free cloths or paper towel on each and mark up the leads and dissy cap so as not to loose firing order

check rotor arm, loose rivet and scorching, do not file clean

carefully and sparingly oil dissy - see Driver's Handbook

check gap and clean spark plugs

check oil in SU carb dampers and engine

condition and tightness of fan belt

check antifreeze, level and strength - winter is coming - and condition of pressure cap seal

personally that earth strap to clean and check and the connection points would be my on my list if you can get at it

all of above whilst possibly not curing your present problem are things you have to do anyway and will help with your present problem and possibly prevent future problems so are well worthwhile
Nigel Atkins

another thought - if you could get the sullen one to do video with sound of you trying to start the car it may help to determine if the car sounds like the starter (not ignition) side is OK

if it’s not this might help -
http://www.youtube.com/user/Universitymotorsltd#p/u/147/LG0ZuPiF2XQ


Nigel Atkins

Tell the sullen one that if he wants sparks - learn to weld! In the meantime, if he won't help, threaten him with marmite porridge again!!!!

Otherwise, did you ever do that list of things that you want to have looked over so that we can plan the visit in December???????
rachmacb

Ally hiya

I don't often get involved in this kind of thread any more, conscious that soon enough someone will be along aiming to gainsay me, but.

There is a reason for starter motor cables and general battery cables being of a certain "bigness", diameter wise, it is so the required amount of power can flow along them.

The earth strap is a vital part of this flowpath (X amount in needs the ability for X amount to flow out) and if some of its braids have eroded, corroded or plain frayed away X is going to get slowed down.

Basically a resistance has been placed in its way and the starter doesn't get enough current to work efficiently.

I understand that you haven't been able to check it out properly yet but don't discount it as a potential weak point.

As Guy reminds us there was that issue of the fuel pipe having a minor pyrotechnic display, to me and anyone who has worked at the roadside on breakdowns it provides a very important clue, Guy says it, a bad earth using something else metal to help it carry 'lecktrickery.

It can also be using the throttle and choke cables too and the wire wound capillary tube from the temperature gauge if fitted.

If the connecting bolt under the car is slightly loose except for the sludge that can slow down the 'trickery too.

As Norm did say
"spark, fuel, compression

that's it

if you've got all three but not running then I'd suspect that your timing is out, or that the wires are mixed up

re-check your ignition wiring, your points open for number 1 when it is at its compression stroke, and that should do it



Norm"

As good a place to start as any IMO

Good luck for the weekend :)
Bill1

Hi Bill,

Like you I dont see the point of joining a thread like this for the same reason. And I don't mean to gainsay you now.

But to quote Ally. "the engine is turning over, fuel is getting to and from the fuel pump, we have a spark at the plugs, but it still wont catch."

Add to that the link to the vid Ally posted, showing it running, and that suggeests to me that the earth is good enough to star the car. So why it won't work now is not, imo, an earth braid issue.

I absolutely agree that x amount of amps are needed to flow through the s/motor, in order for it to turn the engine. And that requires a power and earth path sufficient to conduct that amount of current. But as posted by ally, the engine is turning.

I concede Ally doesn't say specifically how fast it's turning, but I suspect she would have said if it was, barely, or slowly turning.

If an engine is working in all other respects, as you say, spark, fuel, compression, at the right timing, even with a partially flat battery or reduced speed of the starter motor, it would still start.

So to me there is another problem.

Sure, you can do all that others have sugggested, attend to everything, even if it is not the cause of the problem now, but it will still won't fix the fault until that's been identified specifically, and rectified.

Course, I'm not there, and haven't seen the contents of the other thread. But going on the contents of this one, and the vid of the running engine, my gut says something simple, inadvertently introduced, that's stopping it starting. IMO:)


Lawrence Slater

Many thanks all - every comment noted.
I won't be able to do anything to the car til the weekend anyway - I go to work in the dark, I come home in the dark - and I have no power in the garage, so no light!

Will have the lovely Jon (Ironically, his company is named Rough Luck Racing!) here on Sat, and will systematically work my way through the list, with him watching over my shoulder. He just has the outer sill left to weld, and he's using his own new shiny mig welder, rather than mine, which has to pause for breath every 10 minutes - plus we have another enthusiastic, and a slightly more competent amateur coming along to, so should be able to get things moving a bit!

I was feeling a bit grumpy yesterday, but have cheered up no end today. I can, and will, get this car back on the road soon! I bought it to learn the process on, so there's no point beating myself up because I'm not all clued up yet. That was the point of the exercise!

I think I need a bigger garage - Wriggly (the F) is going a bit green round the edges from living under a tree, and I may have another F coming to stay for a bit! Neighbours have already passed comment about my "old bangers"!
Ally

Ooh - another thought - about the "extra" fuel line that is floating in space in the engine bay. It would make sense to me to remove it - but not sure how much of a faff that would be? I've taken out the short one - which was responsible for the first fireworks display, but the one that used to run from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is still there. Get rid - or just turn a blind eye?
Ally

I think that Norm may have the idea, spark happens but the engine doesn't. Key to this problem I reckon Lawrence. Something daft is almost certain to be involved.

Maybe timing maybe bad fuelling still...

Ally you must start at the beginning, check points - check leads on the right part of the cap - check the timing. Make sure the obvious things are on properly. Dizzy cap, carbs, manifold and plug leads fully home on the dizzy cap - the usual suspects.

I know it may seem a bit of an unnecessary faff but I wouldn't like any useless tubes, pipes wires or anything else lying around and possibly confusing the issue.

Professionally I had many cars that turned over reasonably without quite getting there that when given a boost assistance then had sufficient reserve power to start up, often after a lay off. How many times have we had to give an engine that little bit extra to start it after a rebuild (to quote the Blessed Monty, "I know I have")

I wish Berkshire was a tad handier, I am quite/very intrigued about this one.

The neighbours, nice when they show an interest isn't it?

:)

You should introduce yours to mine, the miserable ol' scrote...
Bill1

I'm going to start at the beginning again, and not rely on the fact that we had spark from the plugs a few weeks ago.

My spark plug tester arrived today, so that's another weapon in my ar*enal! I'm going to test it on the F first - just to be sure, as I've just changed the coil packs, plugs and leads on that, so its a good test pilot!

Another q re the choke - Someone asked how far I was pulling it out. It only comes out about 2cm, and doesn't stay out unless I hold it - is that right? I'm fairly sure that in my old horsebox, the choke button had to be physically pushed back in in stages until the engine was warmed up. I also had a Suzuki SJ410 - and seem to remember that I pulled the choke out, turned it on, then pushed the choke back in straight away, and off it went.
Ally

Standard choke equipment includes a clothes peg (spring type) for many SU carbed motor cars

Pull out choke, slip peg on exposed section of cable turn on starter

let engine warm up, some may take a few minutes to warm right up and then when satisfied (life and experience are the only criteria I ever found :( ) remove peg - drive on

2cm doesnt sound much til I look at it on a ruler ¾" nigh on, a littlle short but ought to work

My Peter Burgess tuned HIF44 SU needs choke to start cold then push the choke back within a few seconds, which only indicates that every one is different. The next car might need much longer

I would expect slightly more cable to come out when pulling the choke, not likely to be the cause but it may be hindering you. Get a "sullen assistant" to pull the knob so YOU can look at the carbs to see if the linkage
a: lifts b: lifts the same on front and back and c: if it closes when pushed in
Bill1

It just so happens that I have a clothes peg in my box of tricks for exactly that purpose!

Reminds me of my starting kit for the Landrover. Two man job - one to turn key, the other to deliver a hefty wallop to the starter solenoid with a hammer that lived under the passenger seat.
Ally

Ally,
Another thing that it may help to be aware of. As yours is a 1500 it has a mechanical fuel pump. If it hasn't run for a while the pump will need to operate for maybe 60 seconds or more in order to fill the carbs, before it will start. And on the 1500 this means that the whole engine needs to turn over for that length of time just in order to operate the pump. It may help to turn the key to operate the starter and let the engine turn over ten times. Then wait for 20 seconds, then pull out the choke and try again. The 20 second pause allows the pressure that the pump has built up to flow the fuel through into the carbs ready to fire up on the second stage. Don't have the choke out on the first stage or it may just flood.

Also, if you have had things dismantled or moved just do check that the plug leads are firmly attached and are in the correct firing order. It is so very easy to get them swapped around at some stage and not to notice.

Guy
Guy

That is a very good point Guy. I certainly haven't been letting the engine turn over for that length of time - more like 20 seconds before I get nervous and turn it off again.

I'm totally 100% sure that I haven't swapped the leads around by accident - one thing the F (with its ridiculous set-up) has taught me is to unplug one at a time, and plug back in before moving on to the next. If they are plugged in in the wrong order, it happened before I bought it!! Will be checking though - no tern will be left unstoned


Ally

If you do the method with a 20 second pause, it relieves the strain on the battery, whilst the pressure that the pump has built up allows fuel to continue to flow. But do the first stage with foot off the throttle pedal and the choke in to avoid flooding.
Guy

Thanks - will give it a go. I could even do that in the dark, although it's probably a bit late tonight!
Ally

WAIT, WHAT????

Did i mis read what you just said....you said all you have done is replace the battry, cleaned the battry cable treminals at the battrey, and pulled all 4 spark plugs for a visual inspection and reinstalled...then NOTHING MORE.

Ally im really hoping im wrong on this, but ally you have had several hundred postings from many people that know what there talking about and you havent followed any of there thinking

What exactly are you wanting from us...alot of these guys are more then willing to help you, but they have made some sacrafices to help im a little taken back by this comment you have made....

Agian, i really hope im wrong on this...if im not, you should apollogies for treating everyones time so cavalier, if you had no intentions of applying the groups expert insight.

Prop
Prop

"It just so happens that I have a clothes peg in my box of tricks for exactly that purpose!"

Sunday morning was my first 2 peg required start, winter must be on it's way.

Ian
I Ball

I'm not entirely sure where that came from Prop - it's certainly not the case that I've just opened the bonnet and given a few things a little clean.

That's irrelevant though. I have never been anything but honest about my lack of in depth knowledge,and that due to this - it would a long process to get this car back on the road as I am learning EVERYTHING as I go. Every single piece of advice that I have been offered on here has been taken in the spirit in which it was given, and received with gratitude. If it hasn't already been tried, it's on the list. I have another car which requires regular attention, can only do stuff to the car at weekends, and I'm generally alone, which I confess - scares me a bit. That's my problem though

I came here to tap into the knowledge bank, and, along with the books that Nigel made me buy, this has been the primary resource for me to pick up hints. Hints which I am a- grateful for, and b - acting on. If my progress isn't quick enough - Hell, I'm sorry. Didn't realise that there was a time limit on the advice offered.

I'm a bit horrified that there is a perception that I am wasting peoples time asking for advice. Kinda taken the shine off my day - and it's only 7.30am! Thanks for that.


Ally

Chill down!!!

Whilst the symptoms are much the same in all cars, they are all different and it is imperative that the information is taken on board, but there are only a few who know the 1500 - like Guy - and little points can be missed out!

Ally you have to get ONE person to go through fidget systematically and see what's wrong as that is the only way to deal with the oldies - you've already seen that two people use their pegs differently and I can tell you on all of our MGs it's different - eg the 1275 HAS to have choke open, but Primerose hates that and won't go unless you pull it out exactly the right amount for the weather at exactly the right moment - and the Bs are different again!

Concentrate on getting Jon to do the bodywork as there's no point in making the engine work and not going anywhere!

Prop - go to bed and sleep!!!!
rachmacb

Ally,
Just ignore Prop's last little rant. He must have a guilty conscience. I seem to recall his recent thread about his blown head gasket passing the 150 message mark and didn't see him taking any notice of the plentiful, detailed and time-consuming advice being offered!

The fact that your car's previous owner had it running, and that you have only "investigated" a few engine items since then is a good starting point (pun intended!) It is likely to be something simple - either a knack to it not yet fathomed, or something loose or disconnected rather than something that has miraculously "gone out of adjustment" whilst it hasn't been running. That isn't to say everything will be right as it is. The previous owner may have had to do some coaxing to get it running for that video! Nigel's advice about cleaning electrical contacts is good practice, and in the process you will become familiar with the engine and may notice something not looking "quite right".

My only other advice is enjoy the tinkering with it. That bit can be fun too! Don't let it become a chore and certainly don't let Prop make you feel guilty if you take a rest from it for a few days!
Guy

Ally,

Keep your chin up. When I first had Bob (roberts) webers on my Frogeye, I had tremndous trouble starting it, until someone showed me how it was a completely different method to starting it when the SUs were on.
It will start and you will enjoy the car.
Gary & Gaps

I am looking fwd to it now.
Starting my 45 delorto in -5 conditions ;P

As said every "old" car has it's own starting procedure and once you have found it it will usualy only take a few cranks.
Drive in enough classics and you will "get the feel"

Fuel spark and compression it is all you need but you need to check methodical.

And ignore Prop unless he has something funny to say
Onno K

Ally,
say "hi" to John for me, small world when he put he was welding a Midget I never thought of anyone on here

let me know if he followed my advice to increase his prices :) don't worry he wont

ask him to show and explain to you what he's doing to get your car started I'm sure he wont mind

I offered to tout to get him more advertised but he seems to have enough work to do

anyway back to your car - I know you've got this book and notes library so now's you’re chance to study from it ready for the weekend and beyond

I originally asked about how you used the choke, forgive me if you know this:-
to lock the choke cable in position you turn the knob a quarter of a turn

as said each car has it’s own starting technique but generally this time of year you’ll obviously need choke, at anytime keep your foot well away from the clutch pedal when starting and normally when using choke you don’t touch the accelerator at all (but that can vary)

I don’t think the reason your car wont start is anything you’ve done wrong, perhaps as Guy put you may need to be more persistent with holding on the starter – that's why you need the battery well charged as a few attempts with persistence but not starting soon drains the battery from having enough power to catch a reluctant start

Sorry gone on too long again
Nigel Atkins

Many thanks to all for the recent run of advice. Sounds like I need to work out what the knack is, as its turning over strongly. There was a knack to starting the Landrover, which only I possessed, so stands to reason that Fidget needs to be attended to in a particular way.

Guy - I have emailed the previous owner to see what he did to get it started - hope he responds. And I do enjoy the tinkering - just wish that it was making more good things happen!

Small world Nigel! Absolutely agree that Jon needs to market himself more - he's so good at what he does, and I know he keeps having slow periods when he wonders whether he'd be better off keeping his tinkering as a hobby and getting a proper job! Will give him a kick this weekend - perhaps a bit of free PR from Yours Truly is called for!
He's a friend first, and my mechanic second - and Im very glad I know him!

I didn't know about twisting the choke buttin - so thanks VERY much for that.

Going to stick the battery back on the trickle charger tonight. It doesn't appear to be suffering form the repeated attempts to start - but may as well make sure I have everything in A1 condition before getting myself hot and bothered again!
Ally

I was going to say what Nigel said about twisting the choke knob to lock it out, he beat me to it. :) Damn and blast you Nigel. LOL.

How can one compete to give the best advice, when Nigel is around firing on all cylinders all the time. LOL.

And people do compete here I'm sure. LOL.

Anyway, the reason pegs get employed, is that the choke knob shaft can wear over the years, and then won't lock the choke in position, against the strength of the return springs on the carbs.

And just to be different, well not only that. I don't agree that old tech cars need special handling. WORN engines yes, but not just because it's old.

Can you imagine trying to sell these back in the 60/70s if the salesmen had to say, --- "now sir/madam, you must learn the particular "knack" to starting your new car. They're all different you know". Wouldn't have sold many.

My view is that if it won't start on the button, (key in this case), it's because of a fault. Now maybe your engine might well need some coaxing, throttling, choking, priming, etc. But that's not because it's old. it's either because it's WORN, or it's not set up right.

60/70s, 1500 triumph, 1275 Austin, 1725 Hillman, 1500/1600 Ford, etc etc, all the same 4 cylinder points based internal combustion engine. All can start on the button if there's nowt wrong with them, and if they are set right.

I've no doubt peeeps will disagree with me. But that won't alter the fact that I have owned ALL of the above and have never had much trouble starting any of them, even the smokey ones.

Prop? That's a bit out of kilter for you wasn't it? either you are reading too much Jeremey Clarkson, or you've been reading some of my posts from a few months ago. lol.
Lawrence Slater

Ally,
I did offer to promote John where I could

perhaps it's because I flood people with my opinions ! :)

what! what! - caught you
>>I didn't know about twisting the choke button - so thanks VERY much for that<<
(unless your joking)
so you're not reading the Driver's Handbook :)

I keep telling all it's full of useful information, I think also some long time owners and/or old folk forget some may not know about such things as chokes* so need to learn about them from the Handbooks

like I said if you take the opportunity to read up from your library particularly at the moment about starting and ignition components come the weekend, if not before, it’ll all drop into place

*(if your choke cable isn’t original you may need to turn it the opposite way to lock it into position)

ETA: Lawrence posted whilst I was typing, I've only read his post as far as me firing on all cylinders so far but that has me laughing - I never fire on all cyliners and I only have two!
Nigel Atkins

I have to agree with Lawrence that the cars should when fully maintained and set up should start on the slightest turn of the key - my last Spidget did

but

my present Midget doesn't

it's a different spec to my previous more standard car

perhaps I'm applying the wrong starting technique required for this car as it is

a standard car that's not yet fully serviced, maimtained, repaired and set up will need perhaps a different starting technique until it's fully sorted and even then you may need to allow for wear on components

yes I'm saying allow for wear rather than replacing!

(only on items that are worn rather than faulty)
Nigel Atkins

Lawrence,
Whilst I agree the principle of what you say the advice I was giving about what I referred to as a two stage use of the starter applies specifically to the 1500 (mechanical fuel pump) and is for use if the car has stood for a few days. And the only real benefit is to save on slugging away with the starter motor, draining the battery.

As for requiring a "knack" this is often the case, although I would agree that if a car is in perfect tune and condition in theory at least it shouldn't require any special magic performance or incantation to get it to start. The reality is that many cars are simply not that good and the experienced owner will have "learnt" a procedure that works, possibly without even realising what they do.

Reviewing my advice it is probable that after repeated attempts at starting, the carbs on Ally's car are now full anyway so no two-stage use of starter required. But next time it has stood for more than 4 or 5 days without use it may be a helpful tip to someone. At one time those pumps (as fitted to earlier Triumph heralds as I recall) had a handy little lever on the side and you could use this to prime the carbs without having to crank the engine.
Guy

Hi Guy, that's right, I well remember manually priming fuel pumps on early motors. I wouldn't think that 4/5 days should empty the float bowls in the carbs, esp in this country and in this weather.

But, I said peeps would disagree with me. :).

We don't really disagree though. If Allys' or anyones car. (assuming standard) needs special attention to start it, then it either has a fault through wear, or it's not set up correctly. ---- Or there is a design flaw.

The 1500 Triumph engine in standard form isn't anything special in terms of what it needs to start.

If you have to sit playing, pulling the choke in and out, and coaxing it to life, then it needs attention. Either timing or carburation, or ignition. But once done, assuming it makes sufficient compression, it should start with no more difficulty than any other.

Yep an engine that has stood a while might need a bit of attention. Maybe.

Having said that. After 2 years and 5 months, armed with a new battery, I returned to my Sprite left in my garage whilst I was away. I installed the new battery. I added water to the rad, as it has all but dissappeared in the more than two years left standing. I Removed the plugs, and span the engine until I made oil pressure. Being a '66 1275 I have an electric SU fuel pump. I did have to tap the rear parcel shelf to make it click. It filled the fuel bowl (single HIF44), --- with 2 and half year old petrol.

I re-fitted the plugs, and from inside the engine bay, with the ignition on, I pulled the choke cable full out, and pressed the manual button on the solenoid. The engine fired first time, and started on the 2nd attempt. I was a little suprised, but not that much.

It wasn't siezed, and nothing had changed since the last time it ran. So all else being equal, there was no reason for it not to start.

The point I'm making in a very long winded way, is that if Allys' won't start it's for a reason that needs to be sorted. And if it needs a special technique, that too has a reason that needs to be sorted. Just my view of course. :)
Lawrence Slater

yeah sorry technique was a bad word to use

how about settings - as in how far the choke needs to be pulled out, how much to push the accelorator when the engine is warm, not having the clutch pushed in, ect.

I think a couple of us covered priming the pump earlier

I think after 30 years most cars with have a lot of variables let alone wear

now you knowhow much I go on about having things serviced, maintained, repaired and replaced so I'm no disagreeing with things working as they should

but despite all the work on my present Midget it doesn't start as well as my previous Spridget that had an equal amount of regular work on it _ i just have to accept this, I'm sure almost all would say my present Midget start fine it's just that I'm used to instant starting
Nigel Atkins

At the risk of being seen to agree with anyone (god forbid!), I would just like to say one thing.

The ONLY way to set up a car, is to have ONE person going through it from start to finish, and setting it up and having it tuned and running properly - with all respect to Nigels books, this isn't something that you can learn from them - it has to be taught.

There is also no point whatsoever in doing an engine, then having it sit there for ages while the bodywork is done.

So - well done you Ally for finding the earth strap - it does sound rather disgusting in there, and perhaps that is as good a place as any to start - cleaning and degreasing!

After that, get Jon to finish off the welding, and THEN, and only then, concentrate on the engine. If he can come back, then great - if David Smith can get over again - brilliant - BUT, you really should now concentrate on a systematic and logical approach to this. You can't get a car running by jumping around from problem to problem. It will take you awhile, but, at the end of it, you will know your engine, and, yes, even very well tuned ones can act differently, but, at least you'll know what is going on in that engine.

Your choke cable is almost certainly a locking one - it SHOULD be in a 1500 (more advanced you know :P!), and, if it's not, they are a couple of quid from the BHive, so, get one, as that will give you far more control over where you have it sat than a peg. Notwithstanding keeping one for emergencies!

You want to autotest Fidget, so, I can only really advise that you do go back to the very very basics, get them right - and work up from there - you really are going to put alot of stress on the engine, and, if it's not solid and good - then it's not going to last.
rachmacb

I think it might be a case of not being able to proceed with one thing so trying to get on with something else

I’m with you about preparing other stuff but the engine starting with be an itch now so might as well get it out of the way

the books I recommend are for fully built standard cars for road use not really rebuilds or restoration although a lot of the information will be useful (especially the parts catalogue here) and it’s still good preparation to do some general reading on the down time

if Ally wasn’t pulling my leg and didn’t know about the choke cable locking out then that was simple useful information in the Handbook

also totally agree that no amount of reading and watching videos will fully catch up with hands on experience but sometimes it’s best to let others do tasks that your not quite so good at for many reasons and as you say you want the car right if you’re going to stress it more with sports use
Nigel Atkins

Can't help it, I just have to disagree with two things, well 2.5 really.

1). Read the manual right through. I mean the workshop manual. Haynes, dodgy in places or not, contains loads of good stuff. Anyone with a degree of intelligence can fill in the gaps it leaves. I only have a degree of intelligence (with a VERY SMALL "d"), and yet it's the first book, indeed the only book, I have ever used to work on Spridgets. Fill yer head with it, and you'll be better equipped to ask more pertinent questions of the teacher.

2). Rach, Psychology, and physical effort. I think getting the engine running, is a FIRST task, regardless. --- Unless you intend to immediatley strip the engine and upgrade it.

When I got my spriget all those 35 now years ago, it was a little like Allys' except I had never seen it run. No bat'. It just looked as though it would. It had water in the rad, a full set of plugs, and had reasonable oil on the dipstick. So I towed it back to my rented unpowered garage, and the first thing I did was to see just how much bodywork was needed.

Depression despondency and regret set in. It was November, it was grey, and it was cold. It was 6 miles from where I lived, and I wondered why I bothered to buy the bloody thing. It was saturday morning, and I had a hangover. To add to the misery, having to push the f#$#$g thing, in and out of the garage, just made it worse.

So I got the engine running. It was endy, and it smoked, but the mood lift was everything I needed.

Not only could I thrash it up and down the communal road in the garage complex, I could use the heater to get warm, and I could reverse and drive it in and out of the garage. And that meant I had more room to work on it.

A full weekend, if that's what it takes to start the engine, will make life much easier, and lift the spirits FAR more than getting a bit of welding out of the way. When you get fed up with looking at the latest weld and primer paint, and that little bit of satisfaction has worn off, you can sit in the drivers seat, turn the key and thrash the crap out of the engine. Wheelspin, and generally feel motivated.

Course, I'm weird, so maybe nobody will agree with me. LOL.
Lawrence Slater

Well the above is all nice

But, before any of this can be useful information,

Ally still needs to go back and do the basic testing, something she HAS NOT DONE YET.


1 ST thing we need to know is there a spark ...yes or no ?

Until ally actually does a test to find out, which go back and read, she has yet to accomplish.

The past 400 postings are well.. ill let you fill in the words

The only thing ally has done, if i understand correctly is replace the battry, clean the cables, pull the sparkplugs for a look and reinstall, and .locate the earth strap...thats it nothing more

Ally, i dont think im being mean to you, you gave us the impression you where checking this stuff out...thats why im offended




If this is all a misunderstanding, then im very sorry for my input?

Can you please varify that you have done the various test and there out comes.... Aka example did you actually check the end of the spark plug wires for spark... Ect ect or have you not checked and done the other top 10 things to check for

Ally... In no way will any of use find fault with lack of experiance or the time it takes to perform a test or even a fear of doing so, but girl ... You need to be honest with us....this is where my offence lays with you
Like i said, if I took your above stateement out of context for what has been done and NOT done...then my profound apaology

If there is truth to this, then thats great news as now we can put the past behind us and begin a well thought out organised process starting at th beginning

Is there a blue spark.... Yes or no?

Prop
Prop

<<Course, I'm weird, so maybe nobody will agree with me.>>

Oh no Lawrence, we ALL agree you are weird!




(but actually, spot on with this - getting the engine running is the real No 1 morale booster!)
Guy

ha ha ha. Well that's something then. Everybody agrees I'm weird, one for the list of agreements then. lol
Lawrence Slater

In defense of lawerance

I personally and truthfull dont find lawerance to wierd, or even strange, he seems perfectly normal to me

I got your back lawerance

Prop
Prop

Lawrence,
now that IS something to worry about!
Guy

Heh heh, thanks Prop.

Any of that space dust left? lol.
Lawrence Slater

Prop,

I think you have misunderstood me Prop.

BEFORE realising the electrics were shorting like a mad thing and getting worried about setting fire to it- I had been working my way round the electrical connectors, making sure they were all clean and dry and secure. I've cleaned up the contact breaker points on the distributor. I've changed all the filters. I've checked for a spark at the plugs - as I mentioned in the very same post you picked me up on, and YES - There is a spark! I've figured out that the fuel pump wasn't working,sucked up enough petrol manually (or should that be orally!)from the tank to start a ride on mower with my own breath, and replaced the faulty fuel pump. I've not gone near the carbs, because I haven't quite got my head around the whole carb thing. I have done what I am confident doing without anyone there to help me, and probably would have done more if the pyrotechnics hadn't freaked me out.

If you're now thinking "What the hell did she buy the car for when she's clearly useless" - Very early on, I did say that I was egged on by friends - who all said they were going to do whatever it took to get the car back on the road. All of these friends have now disappeared and left me to do this alone. Hence getting Jon on side to help out - unfortunately, I don't have the funds to get him down here very often.

I have been reading all the books I was recommended - but hadn't read the bit about the choke handle turning to lock! I've just gone back to the workshop manual, and I still can't see the relevant bit. I know how to take it out, just not seen anything about turning it to lock it! It simply wasn't on my radar - I've been trying to work things out as I go, and the choke hadn't really been in my thoughts - til now. It came out when I pulled it, so I figured that it worked. It has now been added to the list of things to do!

Elsewhere, I've stripped out the whole interior, changed the hood and started refurbing the wheels.

I'm not going to keep banging on with this "Poor me" crap. The guys who I thought were going to help can go disappear up their own backsides. I fully intend to have the car on the road, and any help I get along the way is much appreciated.

Have to say though - I really don't feel I deserved that attack Prop - and I don't quite understand why I got it in the neck from you. I'm a bit oversensitive about this car anyway - because I'm nervous about messing it up - so you cut me pretty deep. Not cool.
Ally

Prop

where ever you are or have ever been may I suggest politely 8(

Read the ffffffthread

Ally says in her first post up top, way up top!

"So we are correctly earthed - unless the sludge is not an effective conductor, the engine is turning over, fuel is getting to and from the fuel pump, we have a spark at the plugs, but it still wont catch."

Go back, read and digest it

before you go on at her for stuff she has already DONE


migod


Prop look at what PROP says

"Ally... In no way will any of use find fault with lack of experiance or the time it takes to perform a test or even a fear of doing so, but girl ... You need to be honest with us....this is where my offence lays with you
Like i said, if I took your above stateement out of context for what has been done and NOT done...then my profound apaology"

Bill1

Hi Bill,

I know what he said - and whilst I appreciate it, I'm still grumpy about having my honesty challenged. I don't think I've EVER held back about quite how much the prospect of fixing this car up scares the crap out of me!! If anything, I've reined in just how worried I am for fear of people thinking I'm just on here to try and find a knight in shining armour to come along and take over! I may be many things, but dishonest isn't one of them!
Ally

I dont blame you Ally, I'm afraid I don't like that sort of thing at all. There are far too many assumptions made here, it gets on my nerves you know ;)

Prop get real, you owe a lady an apology.
Bill1

Whatever you are Ally, one thing you shouldn't be is scared, crapless or otherwise. What's the worst that can happen? --- It won't start.

Short of getting it going, and running it headlong at x mph into a brick wall, you are not going to f, the thing beyond repair. So stop worrying what you do, beyond getting frustrated.

Seems to me the only thing you really fear, is your fear own of failure.

A grat man once said.

"There’s no success like failure and failure’s no success at all"

So, just like triumph and disaster, treat these two impostors just the same.

I have no idea what all that means, but it sounds good. LOL.

And, don't let old fashioned values stop the use of every asset you have. If I had been born F instead of M, I would have used every charm I had at every opportunity to get everything I ever wanted.

So flirt and get some help if you want to. Who cares if you do. :) You answer only to yourself.

Lawrence Slater

I'm scared of the thing catching fire mainly! The neighbours already think I'm some sort of scrap metal woman - lord knows what they'd think if I set fire to a block of garages!

I don't want to flirt and get some help - it annoys me immensely when women use their feminine wiles to get men to do car stuff for them. I want to get a grip and get this car sorted - and to be able to say hand on heart, that I did a decent job and learned a lot from the experience.
Ally

I'm sure that that isn't what prop meant and it's another example of two countries divided by a common language.
rachmacb

I don't need or want an apology. I just wish this hadn't happened, and I'm as much to blame for not communicating clearly. I'd really like it if this could be put to bed now. Onwards and upwards.
I have some decisions to make. Looks like I may have bitten off a bit more than I can chew with this car. I love it to bits, but perhaps it wasn't meant to be.
Ally

Nah, that's just defeatest.

If you feel that way, ignore it for a few weeks, and recharge the motivation. It won't have gone anywhere or got any worse for being ignored.

What's the rush anyway?
Lawrence Slater

The car WILL be fine

soon

And we all have problems communicating, not just Prop

Some days whatever we write doesn't compute up here inside our heads with what we INTENDED to write

Where was I? Oh yes the car will turn out to have something simple wrong with it, or as Guy conjectures, bugger all wrong with it. Just a change of technique with the ignition key and the throttle.

Hopefully
Bill1

Ally,

You have my profound apology, thank you for the clarity ....i really had the impression you where leading us on, this whole board is the 1st to jump to attention when someone is in chrisis... And i admire that very strongly in each of our membership, and will protect this board in how ever i can,

I really thought you had given us a run around and was just yanking our chains

Which now i know is not the case...so thank you for your patiance and understanding... And i hope ypu will forgive my aggressive attack towards you .

After seeing what you have accomplished... Wow... Yout not that far away from this thing starting...as othere have said it will be something stupid....god knows ivebeen the worse... 2 years ago trying to start for the 1st time i spent lots of hours tring this and that, talked to everyone on the board for like 2 monyhs... Checked the wiring and rechecked multiple times... And onlu a brief amount of fire along with a few pops... Then one day it just became appearnt how stupid i was... I had # 1 going to 1 and 2 going to 2 and 3 to 3 and of couarse 4 to you know where...i eired up 1342, and she fired right up....gez how embarrasing was thay

But ally...hang in there once this comes to lifr, your going to have a hole new out look, its like playing golf... Once you have that mgic drive sending the ball 225 yards down the middle of the fairway...your hooked for laugh

Its the same with the midget...your almost home, dont stop pushing now

And seriously, dont make any decisions till after you get the engine running.

Like we have said, its something dumb
You got spark, your at least getting fuel to the carbs, and yove got compression im assuming...if it was me id be thinking carbs or timing...but thats just my opunion
Prop

I know other people often don't like the stuff... But I've had good results with a couple of engines that had been sitting a long time and didn't want to start by using some starter fluid ('Aerostart' or 'Start Ya Bastard') to get them started. Once they are started, run them for a good while (20 minutes or so) and I've not had a problem starting them again. I personally would give this a try if I were confident I had fuel and spark and timing was at least ballpark (which it will be if the car was running previously), but it would be good to hear other peoples opinions. Once running you can check the timing dynamically, see if you have any leaks or strange noises, and after running it for a while it should have blown any garbage out of the engine and hopefully be better from then on. Sorry I can't recall, but have you done a compression test?
Andrew F

Glad we're back on the same wavelength Prop - onwards and upwards. Let's forget about this and move on!

Andrew - I used to keep my horse lorry (1964 bus conversion) on the road with Easy Start. It wouldn't have started EVER if I hadn't used it. Think you many have opened a can of worms here though!

I really want a can of "Start Ya Bastard". Not to use, just because it's such a brilliant name!
Ally

Ally

Prop's last post set me wondering if you or the PO has got the plug leads mixed up? Has this been checked? It does help if the plug leads are numbered.
Peter B

Ally,
(just wonder what you cleaned the points with)

sorry I think you've misunderstood when I put owner's/Drivers Handbook I don't mean the factory or any other workshop manual I mean this - (Ref: 0058) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

workshop manuals for repair, Driver's Handbook for prevention

it's not for restortations or rebuilds really but still is very useful for that - this is the book you would have got when the car was new in the er, well, usually glove box, it tells you all about owning, driving, maintaining and servicing your car but not repairing or restoring the car directly

at £8 it will tell a potential or new owner so much of what they need to know about owning the car (but not restorting or rebuilding as it was for when the car was new)

this Driver's Handbook is especially good for those that didn't grow up with or own as a first car cars from the era or those that haven't driven these type of cars for some many years they've forgotten all that is involved (especially the amount of servicing)

Ally, as someone new to Spridgets (and a reasonable person, before some others get ideas) if you buy the Driver's Handbook and don't find it usefull I'll buy it off you for twice the price

the people who seem object to my recommending this book never seem to be those that I intend if for
Nigel Atkins

Just out of interest,for some reason I carry a small caption cut out from our local rag donkey's years ago with my driving licence/insurance/MOT cert.Jeez, I hope I am not tempting Providence but if I proffer it to a copper instead of licence he might let me off if I have been naughty.It reads( and I quote)

" New Zealand-A company has created a new high potency aerosol designed for difficult-to- start engines,and they've colourfully called it"Start Ya Bastard".The formula can start both diesel and petrol engines( two or four stroke).A spokesman for makers Nulon said"In searching for a name for this product,we could not get away from the three most commonly used words when trying to start an engine"

Love it.

My two pennorth,check your plug lead order,then get someone to check the static timing before you go any further making sure it's not 180 degrees out.

Good luck
M Blencowe

I have already had a discussion with Rach about how easily I could have got it 180 out. I'm going to check that before I do anything else on Saturday.

Cleaned the points with cotton wool soaked in pig oil and sulphur Nigel. That's right isn't it? They're now as black and sticky as the rest of the engine;-)

Maybe "Start Ya Bastard" is the magic word - and if I say it 6 times whilst kicking the crap out of it - it will miraculously burst into life!

Ally

Ally,
Did you try some fresh petrol?
I have had engines start and run on 20 year old petrol in he past and always thought that people who said to try fresh petrol were just being perfectionist fussies. But modern petrol has changed and now anything older than 2 months can be difficult. Although admittedly some Start Ya Bastard would get around that.
Guy

I do believe Nigel, that I don't own that book! I've got three - MG Workshop Manual (Midget 1500), Haynes Midget and Sprite Restoration Manual, and Practical Classics Sprite and Midget 1958-1980 workshop manual.

That would explain why I am getting completely overwhelmed with technical stuff and feeling a bit blonde and stupid!!

I've asked Father Christmas for one - asap!
Ally

Petrol is fresh Guy. I bought it and poured it into the car with my own fair hands. Tank was VERY VERY empty.

Incidentally, when I sucked it up to the pump - it didn't drag any crud up with it - just pure unadulterated Shell. Tasted lovely...not!
Ally

How would you have gotten the timing 180 out, if all you did was clean the points?

I keep coming back to that vid you posted of the engine running, pretty well too by the looks of it.

So what has been done since then, that might have put the timing 180 out?
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence,
The plug leads could be in the correct order (1342) but moved along by 2. That would make it 180 degrees out. It depends to some extent if the leads were marked, or alternatively trimmed to correct lengths so that the shortest will only reach the correct plug, to avoid wrong connections.
Guy

Maybe I'm not as clever as I think I am, and have made a mucker of it. Still - would be a nice easy fix!!

Can#t believe it's only Wednesday. Enthusiasm has come flooding back today, but work is seriously getting in the way of fiddling! I wonder of early retirement is an option at the age of thirtymumble!!
Ally

Actually, on looking at the previous owner's video of it I see that there are labels on the leads so they are unlikely to be connected wrongly. Still worth checking though, in case the labels are wrong!
Guy

I've also emailed the previous owners to ask how they got it started. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
Ally

Labels have nothing legible on them. Some plonker used a felt tip pen to mark them - which has of course dissolved!
Ally

Ally,
as there's £16 at stake I'm going to be all ungentlemanly and say . . . no I wont

but I will say don't wait for Xmas order it now, this instant if not before :)

seriously if you order it and get it straight away (well what the Free P&P allows) I'm sure it will help you and you'll be very pleased with it

i will say notes and book are only helpful if you read them - marking up HT leads and dissy cap is in there and in this thread (I think)

'pig oil and sulphur' - people have been know to use emery and grit paper
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,

If I buy one, and don't like it, will you give me 16 quid?

I've never even seen one, let alone read one. :)
Lawrence Slater

Nigel,
Send me £16 and I will buy one, and send it to you if I don't like it. If I do like it I will send you back £8 as the cost of the book. Seem fair?
Guy

Lawrence,
you obviously you missed my previous post

>>this Driver's Handbook is especially good for those that didn't grow up with or own as a first car cars from the era or those that haven't driven these type of cars for many years and they've forgotten all that is involved (especially the amount of servicing)

Ally, as someone new to Spridgets (and a reasonable person, before some others get ideas) if you buy the Driver's Handbook and don't find it useful I'll buy it off you for twice the price<<

I draw your attention to the 'reasonable person' and 'before some others get ideas parts

if you've never seen one or read one why are you so convinced potential and new ones wont benefit from a copy

I draw your attention to the 'reasonable person' part

oh, I've put that twice, Freudian slip (not – as the kids would say) :)

sorry Guy I was typing whilst you posted but you're coved here too by not being new to the car - but I bet there are things you've forgotten :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,
I have seen other car user manuals, and also I have the benefit of seeing reproduced here, some of it's contents. lol.

Come on, I'll do a deal, I'll only charge you 12 quid, that saves you 4 quid. :)
Lawrence Slater

Ally, early retirement is always an option, subject to an adequate supply of spondoolies :)
Lawrence Slater

This is slightly different to my can at home (and cleaner too!) but this'll give you an idea. Magic stuff!

Andrew F

That's great stuff.

Since it contains 25% Ether, when you get bored trying to start the engine, you can use it as anaesthetic to calm yourself down. LOL

Comfortably Numb. :)
Lawrence Slater

Only kidding Nigel!!!I used a nail buffing block (for the benefit of the chaps, these are flexible blocks with a different grade of emery paper on each side - VERY VERY useful things to have in your toolbox!!) The points were actually pretty clean, but gave them a bit of a tickle anyway.

I decided - although there IS a spark at the plugs, that it would be good practice to replace leads and plugs, so had a couple of boxes to open when I got him today!! Not quite as many as I expected to have - someone (a natural blonde!) looked at the photo and didn't read the listing, which clearly stated "This listing is for one spark plug". I have ordered three more, and begged the nice man to send them quickly So I have them for Saturday.

Also have some inline fuel filters and some dinky little jubilee clips on the way. Figured that fuel filters were good things to have, and that the little glass window would also be quite useful for making sure that fuel was getting where it should be.

Ally

Ally

Stuff like spark plugs, and filters are all easyly purchased at the local auto parts store...i hate to think what your getting rearended for on shipping cost
Pro P

I've had one of those buffing blocks used on my (bitten) hand nails

good idea to have a fuel filter, suggestions on placement for 1500s were in a recent thread

good idea to have good condition HT leads too (don't forget to check rotor and dissy cap less cosemetic but just as important)

check gapping on each new plug

notes about have been provided previously about plugs and HT leads replacement - it's easy to forget to mark things up or take note or photos before you start in the excitement (or frustration)

don't forget rach point that some items can deteriate with age even if not used so don't get some items too far in advance of regular use

ETA: Prop plugs at least sound like eBay so perhaps P&P included plus motor factors might not be open when Ally can get to them and she wants to be all prepared for her man's visit :)
Nigel Atkins

So where are we in the process of getting allys car started, the lad time i paid much attention... The ignition was fine ,we had good comprssion in all 4 cylinders...
Everything was hooked up correctly new battry, and fuel pump


So that leaves timing and carberation....i say we knock out timing next if nobody body has any objections

Im assuming ally has duel SU hs4s....so who here knows SU HS 4s that can walk ally thur the carbs and get her up and running...

concidering we have now done well over 500 postings and we seem to be going no where fast, lets keep it to just one person walking ally thur this... Someone we all have faith in...(ME,...well yes im the most obvious choice, but i must decline, but thank you for th consideration....haha)...but seriously, lets work togather and establish one qualified person to help bring focas to allys issues and lets wrap this up and get allys engine running
Pro P

Nigal,

Thank god i live in the usa.... Our auto parts stores open at 7am and close at 10pm...

Thats so sad i didnt realise that the uk auto parts stores keep bankers hours....yepp ally should definatly order on line for everything

Prop
Pro P

Shipping was only a couple of quid, and its easier to buy what I want on Ebay, rather then going the autofactors to have some spotty teenager trying to sell me something different!

I am going to be really really careful to get it right Nigel. May even wait for Jon to arrive so that there's absolutely no doubt! I'll be marking the leads - dont you worry about that!

I've already checked the distr cap - it's in good nick.
Ally

Prop - I have high hopes for Saturday! Fantastic mechanic (he is geuinely brilliant!), plus side order of able assistant. And me of course, bumbling around, sticking my nose in and getting in the way. If we don't him started on Saturday, I'm going to spray Start Ya Bastard all over him, and throw on a lighted match!

Or maybe I'll just lock the garage, walk away quietly and kick the cat!
Ally

Ally at the 30, she drops back leg extended... WHAP... ALLYS FOOT makes contact... Its gooing going...its got the distance... SHE SCORES, THE CAT HAS BEEN KICKED THUR THE UP RIGHTS

Manchester united goes crazy with awe

There be no safe cats tonight

Prop
Pro P

Prop describing a game of cricket?
Guy

Poor little guy. He lives in fear - never gets to relax. Watching his back the whole time...

Ally

Ehh?
Guy

I think Prop’s on Gallic football by the sound of it :)

magnifying glass on the dissy cap under strong light then Ally :)

photos, drawings notes everything before removing leads and/or dissy cap - even people who know all this have thought I'll remember four positions and then didn't and that was when I , er, I mean they, were younger

an experienced friend put the leads back on once and after starting up said "Why's that getting so hot? Oh, I know, turn off, swap them two leads"
Nigel Atkins

All this, just to start an engine.:)

The world is a strange place these days. LOL.
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 04/12/2011 and 08/12/2011

MG Midget and Sprite General index

This thread is from the archives. Join this live forum now