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MG Midget and Sprite General - EastMeets West, Datsun+MG content

After several frustrating attempts and one bodged spigot bushing, I mated up my Mowag motor to my Datsun tranny.

A couple of small items to complete and back in she'll go.

I'm going to rent an A-Frame type engine hoist, however I may need to rig some kind of spreader bar to balance the load when reinstalling.

Realisticly I'm looking at Wednesday, so hopefully I'll be driving this weekend!!

Phil Burke

That's great to see Phil, but you will want a shorter shifter...

8-)
Rick Bastedo

Sounds like a plan phil

let me guess... you pounded the heck out of that spioget bushing trying to figure out why it wouldnt go in all the way... am I correct??...LOL Done that twice myself.

As to the lift... wow, tough one... Those are really hard to find for rent and if you do, it will be uber expensive... insurance/lieability issues!! for what you will pay to rent, you can go to harbor frieght and buy one... you could always re-sell and break even, but I find many uses for mine... otherwise, your phone is your best friend to everyone in your contact address book and friends of friends you can think of to barrow one. dont be surprised if most people that have a crane will want to sell theres to you just to free up there garage space.

they do make a (load level adjuster ... grease the heck out of the long screw thingy, makes it alot easier to crank) that lifts the front or rear up and down at sharp angles perfect for sticking the lump into the engine bay ... also cheap at HF

just a tip for easy install...

remove the oil pan and the front crankshaft pulley, then hoist the lump into the engine bay... massive easier

Remember to install the speedo cable before the lump is in the tranny hole... it sucks when you got to pull the stupid thing back out to hook up the cable.

If your doing all the craning by yourself and if you still have the roll bar behind your seat ...tie a rope around the tranny tail and run the rope out the tunnel shifter hole and over the roll bar then back over the windshield to the front of the car..that way you can pull the rope as you lower the lump into place and keep tieing it off and guild the tranny into place... the tranny tail loves to dip down and drag across the bottom of the tunnel, Its much easier then back and forth around the car,

Make sure you remove the front bumper before you start craning the engine into the engine bay hole... my crane is just about 3 inches to short without going to a longer iffy extension then Im UN-comfortable messing with... I got the crane dent in the bumper to prove the point

duck tape your knuckles... this will save massive blood loss from having the skin peeled off your fingers when you start installing the rear tranny mount... and super glue is your best friend for bad cuts that will require 2-4 stiches... just clean the wounded hole out good and squrit the glue into the wound. and let it set up, about 5 minutes... The dried super glue will fall out in 2-3 days leaving a nice tender scare

great news... Im envious of your garage... keep us posted

Prop

Prop

One more tip... for buying/barrowing a crane... get one with small coaster wheels

and measure the width of the crane lifts legs at there widist point and then measure the distance between the rubber of the inside of both front tires... Will it fit? Not fun if it dosnt


Prop
Prop

Phil
That is looking pretty good!
I kind of hate to agree with Prop but I agree with a lot of what he says.
I wouldn't remove the pulley or pan but it will still require a bit of a prybar to coax the assembly that last 1/4" into the car. I have found that a shovel handle works well for that last push. It is too hard to properly torque the pulley when the engine is in the car.
BillM
Bill Masquelier

I've done the lump myself w/ the ribcase.
I'd rather fight it for 1/2 hr. and get it in in one piece than to have to install the pan and crank pully in situ.

I can rent an a frame from two lacal rent-alls.
1 comes apart for transport, and the other tilts over and goes on a tow ball. I dont have to remove the bumper, they are both way big, and the issue is the legs are just as wide as the tires. I put the front on stands and roll the a frame in w/ the legs UNDER the tires.
$45.00/day vs. $200.00 + @ harbor freight. I'll rent.

Bill,
Two quick questions.
1. where is the reverse light switch hole that gets plugged? Can I hook up rev. lights?

2. Have I got the clutch slave pin correct?

Phil Burke

Looks good to me... what slave is that?

Man your so lucky that you can still rent a crane, and at a great price. those things just soak up the space in my shop.

Id certianly check if you can rent a load leveler adjuster from the same place... if they dont have them HF sells them for around 30 to 40 dollars... defiantly worth it.

Any chance you can video the install for youtube... Im sure Im not alone and would love to see you loose it and start flinging tools across the room... LOL
Prop

An ex garage mechanic says they used to remove & install the engine & g/box as one unit by raising the rear of the car until the axle was waist height. Then the engine & g/box unit on the lifting crane was just pushed straight back thus eliminating the need to adjust the angle as the unit was being fitted. The same procedure was used for B's.

HTH
Doug Plumb

I've always done the opposite. I raise the front on jackstands, Not waist high, but a couple of stops on the jacks.

The tail of the tranny wants to fall, so by raising the front, you are "leveling" the unit to the car.
Phil Burke

Phil
The nut works better if you have it facing the other way but this will work.
Make sure that you have the piston pushed all the way to the back of the cylinder and have about 1/8" "slop" in the rod, otherwise bleeding becomes a nightmare.
The reverse light plug is the one that sticks out the most and will interfere with the body. NEED to swap it out. Noone that I know about has a good solution to the back-up light problem, maybe we can work on that in Wisconsin.
Prop- that is a cylinder that I make up from parts. It is a really clean installation and I am really happy with it. Want one? I sell the complete setup (slave, rod and line and adapter to the mc) for $50
BillM
Bill Masquelier

Phil, I second the idea of using a tilt mechanism with the lift. It's not necessary, but sure makes it easier, even if you jack up the rear. You can probably get one from the same place you rent the hoist from. And don't forget a friend or two to help. I got my nephew - younger and more flexible - to guide things from under the car. Just be careful when you're pushing and shoving that you don't push it off the jack stands! Be patient! When I get my itinerary for the trip to Wisconsin, I'll let you know in case you want to join us.
Jack
Jack Orkin

I don't follow the logic of jacking up the REAR of the car.

It seems to me that if the engine is tilted back towards the tranny, you would level the installation by jacking the FRONT of the car.

Thanks Jack, I've got a stange itinery going north.
I'm spending a day or 2 in Terre haute IN. w/ my sister and a 2 days in WI before the party.
I might want to caravan south after Midget 50

Phil
Phil Burke

I cant envision the advantage to jacking the rear up ither. It would seem the tail of the tranny will bang into the floor much sooner and at a harder angle.

but give my rope trick tied around the tail of the tranny a try... its a sweet easy stress free time saver.


Prop
Prop

Well, if I understand it correctly (?), when you try to put the unit back in, initially you have to tilt it at a pretty steep angle to get the tail of the tranny in the right place and have the pan clear the radiator support. As it starts to go in, it's a ballet of slowly inching it back while slowly bringing it more level. If the rear of the car is elevated, then it effectively reduces the angle needed when getting it started in the engine bay. If you draw a horizontal line on a piece of paper, then draw an intersecting line at 45 degrees, then rotate the paper so the lines sort of form a "V", the 45 degree line is decreased to a smaller angle (with relation to the horizon). Sort of. Does this make sense? All of this may be more theoretical than actual, but muscling that lump down in the rear while pushing it in can be quite a chore. That's why a tilt mechanism is handy. I do know that when my engine comes out again, I am definitely going to consider notching the front crossmember. An extra 1/2" would be great! Oh, and if you want to keep backup lights, you can just wire a manual switch to the existing wires.
Jack
Jack Orkin

Put the front jack stands under the footwell with a load spreading bar. If you put them under the chassisrails fitting will be a bit more difficult.

Dont put oil in the box before fitting (dont ask:-()

I removed the sump for easier fitting and even then I had to hammer the underside of the heater box.

Goodluck.

PS with the slave: you can actually feel if its ok by hand. It has to be loose from the pressure plate for at least a couple of milimeters. The rivergate CNC slave is much better but the original can do the trick if in good nick.

Bas
Bas Timmermans

Phil,
Rather than using one of those tilt mechanisms that work GREAT on a small-block Chevy V8 but don't seem to attach well to an A-Series, I simply use a 2" wide nylon tiedown strap from Harbor Freight, you know, the heavy-duty truck type.

One end of the strap has a hook; put this on the hook of the engine crane.

With the engine crane hook resting on the top of the engine, run the strap around the back of the bellhousing, under the transmission, back up the other side of the bellhousing, then back through the crane hook.

Continue diagonally up the engine to the other side of the front, under the crankshaft pulley and back up to the crane hook so that the entire strap now forms a figure-8.

Tie a loop in the strap and hook it to the crane hook. Lift the engine with the crane (or the chain-fall, if I am reading your picture correctly) and you will find that it tips very nicely front to back and stays wherever you put it.
David "strapped" Lieb
David Lieb

If I understand you correctly david...

Thats not half bad... your essentially creating sort of a half breed combination of a counter wieght pully system without the pulley and a panhard rod set up


wicked!, Im definatly going to try that next time

how long a strap?

Prop
Prop

Prop,
I just went out and measured it. The strap I use is 2.25" wide and 14' long (Closest thing I am seeing now is http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-x-20-ft-ratchet-tie-down-47764.html). 10' would probably be long enough. It happened to be in sight one time when I was looking for a better way of yanking the lump, so I started playing with it. I guess I got lucky with the first try and I have used it that way ever since.
David "you should see the bicycle inner tube for bleeding the clutch" Lieb
David Lieb

Friday is my ever-further-out target date to re-instal.

I tried Davids strap, but it wont work because I'm using the midget starter, and I've built a cover.

So I'm going to use my chain hoist and one of these.
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/shop-cranes/2-ton-capacity-heavy-duty-load-leveler-5402.html

If I use the top bolt of the conversion plate and a thermostat nut, its almost as wide as the leveler.

I'm flying solo, so no video

Phil

Phil Burke

I definitely join the club that suggests some kind of a load leveler/tilter. It's not just that the engine has to go in at an agle to clear, it's that the angle has to change as it is going in. It's a lot easier to do if there is a mechanism to help. You still will get to the point where the engine is almost in, but the pulley is sitting on the front cross member... this is very frustrating! it will go in, but it sometimes needs a little prying to get it to slide that last bit back.

a rope through the shifter hole does help to lift the tail of the transmission off the floor of the tunnel (and over the cross bar at the mouth of the tunnel.)

I would not recommend removing the pan and pulley either, in my mind there are too many delicate things that are exposed without the pan on... but thats opinion.

and finally re: the reverse lights, you have to blank the reverse light switch because the tunnel is too narrow for it. so you can do a manual switch OR if you don't mind an extra hole in the car, you can cut a clearance hole for it and install the switch after the transmission is in place. That is what I did, see pic here: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/D5P5NEnl5NPCdpIvlCKwyw?feat=directlink

The switch is totally covered by carpet when all is said and done and then you just have to put bullet connectors on the ends of the switch wires to hook it up to the stock wiring.

have you considered cobbling together a cover for the exposed end of the starter motor? it isn't strictly necessary, but it would make me uncomfortable thinking it was hanging out like that. (i used a gear reduction starter so it wasn't an issue for me)
Chris Edwards

never mind about the starter cover.. i just re-read and saw the cover you made. I feel better already. :)
Chris Edwards

Removing the oil pan and the pulley is a 1000% easier.. I used an old banket and duck tape to protect the lower end.

Just a thought on the starter cover ...

Perhaps a better starter cover would be a pre-made metal clyinder, like an old small kitchen type of fire extingisher, or a metal paint can that can be cut down to size then formed and JB welded on (2 part LONG SET epoxy) then it can be finished out with aluminum based Bondo and painted to match. infact if that area dosnt get real hot perhaps some schedule 60 PCV 3-4 inch drian pipe could be a good option esp for carving down to fit the form and profile of the tranny sides. Provided you can find a good metal to plactic glue to bond it on with. That way it would have a factory finish look.


Sorry for the honesty, but I wouldnt consider myself your friend if I didnt say anything... Im not a fan of the sheetmetal cover, Id think it may even trap oil, dirt, and other crude in and around the openings/gaps.

Prop....(I still want to be friends) :-)
Prop

There's Prop's opinion.

Here's mine (for free!!)

Look good, last long time.

I've seen several of Paul A's cutouts and sheet metal coverings, you are in good company!

Are you building a trailer queen or something you can drive?

No offense Prop, just another opinion - and I want to be friends too.

8-)
Rick Bastedo

I cannibalised an old side lifting vehicle jack to make my own load leveller

It shouldn't really have worked considering how much the threaded bar bent with the hook in action but it did

I used two angle iron brackets drilled to fit the rocker cover stud holes and drilled to allow the threaded bar to pass through

A pair of Mole Grips to turn the thread and it worked perfectly

I will add a parallel bar to run the hook on for next time, but for thirty minutes work I saved about thirty pounds at Machine Mart

And more to the point was able to fit the engine on my own without wrecking the renewed paint inside the engine compartment

Even the bottomn pulley passed over the front slam panel without touching

I was amazed how easily it worked

Bill 1

Am I the ONLY one who just threw more money at the problem and bought this thing?? I understand the glory of Sticking It To The Man by not buying stuff you can cobble together in the shop, but sometimes you've just got to breakdown and buy Daniel's D*mn Book...

And Bill sdgpm, were that my weld on your thingamabob, the engine would surely have made a most rapid descent to earth!

Richard "the spellchecker approves of thingamabob" Reeves

Richard Reeves

HAHahaha

Im with ya rich, I got my leveler at harbor freight on sale for $20-ish dollars, Im like you, if I welded something like that up... i would have confirmed with out a doulbt the sir issic newton was correct that... gravity does infact exist. lol

but hey... as long as we can put it to the man.
Prop

The lump is in!!!

I bought the smallest (3/4 ton) leveler at HF. for $30., and used my chain hoist.

It was a tight fit, but with a prybar or 2 it took all of 1 1/4 hrs.

I'll have to re-glue the tranny mount in place, the bottom seperated going into the tunnel, but it looks like I can get to it from underneath the car.

Friday;
Re-glue mount, hook up ignition, exhaust, driveshaft, etc. etc,.
Saturday: DRIVE in 5th gear!~!~
Phil Burke

One more thing for Friday before the Sat.drive - don't forget the transmission fluid! :)
Jack Orkin

I wish I was rich enough to buy a thirty quid doodah that needs chains to make it fit an A series engine...

(The good welds are all on t'other side :) and if I had painted the metal you wouldnt have seen how lumpy that one weld is, just like some thirty quid equipment you can buy.)

Phil have a great time enjoying your newly quietened and powerful Midget, the difference is amazing.

You may find it is worth taking some favourite sounds to listen to on the road. I was amazed to be able to hear things inside the car. Passengers chattering, bystanders outside saying "Oh look at that cool sports car, I want one of those daddy!" once I had changed to a quieter mode of gear selection.

Oh yes, as Jack says make sure you have the slippery stuff inside it or it will quickly begin to sound like a BMC box.
Bill 1

and grease in the U-joint zerks
Prop

This thread was discussed between 01/03/2011 and 04/03/2011

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