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MG Midget and Sprite General - cutting up my ashley?

So I finaly started with the "fitting my ashley hardtop" job.

It is an original one so the fit is rubbish ;)

Onno Könemann

Here is the problem


Onno Könemann

Shim the windscreen pillar!
Alex G Matla

No mather how hard i try i can only get 3 out of 4 corners to fit.
Either the left front or right rear are up in the air.
Nothing is in the way (plenty of room until the rollbar)but even with 2 people and straps we can not get it to fit.

So this is the plan now.....
cutting a slot in the roof diagonaly opening it up there and adding material so the corners can drop.

To me this seems like the leats painfull way as I avoid all the edges (tricky curves) and leave the windows allone (i have the real glass ones)
And only have to fill and fix the smooth transition in the most flat part of the roof.

Onno Könemann

Alex it is a height issue i can not see how to shim the window up 2cm
Onno Könemann

might it be possible to heat it and untwist it?
Rob Armstrong

Onno,
To me that diagonal cut will be very difficult to hide when you repair it. Generally, on body panels, the flatter the panel the more it will show any irregularities. Curved ones are easier to disguise. And because it is just at a random diagonal if it still shows at all it will look like a fault.

What about a central cut from the leading edge above the windscreen (above the rear view mirror)running straight back. Maybe about 200mm would do it. At worst you would end up with a slight crease or ridge showing in the roof, but if central along the axis of the car it would look like it was supposed to be there. If necessary you could also do two shorter cuts either side, parallel to the centre line of the roof.

Guy
Guy

Rob
No experiance with heat but i do not think FG is thermoplastic right?

Guy
Thanks for pointing out my error in reasoning!

But part of the diagonal plan was to get it to "fall" slightly forward.
As the point is up in the air but at the right place along the front of the wind screen.
I fear that it will end up to far back if i just drop it down...
Onno Könemann

Its difficult to tell from the photos, but the front on view makes it look as if there is just not enough curvature to the roof, across its width. A few short slots in the leading edge would surely just drop the corner a bit without moving it back? And the point was that as long as the slots are straight back and logically positioned, then if they show at all, they won't look wrong anyway.
Guy

Or...
lateral thinking. How about adding a sun roof? The cut out would allow the corners to clamp down properly.

On second thoughts - it would look horrible!!!
Guy

How does it look when off the car?

Is it the correct hardtop for a Mk2?

Is your shell twisted?

I'm not sure why the fit of an original one should be 'rubbish'. I've never seen one that bad before.
Dave O'Neill 2

Onno - if you can wait until after the weekend, I'll try and get some photos for you ......
rachmacb

Well again i should have stayed silent en gone for "the bigger hammer

With help of the weight of a neighbour and a bit more balls in bending the FG and I ended up with the result on the pic

This is a lot better!
I also went to my attic and looked at the rear window and there was more curve in it than I remembered.

So FG sags and bends more than i could imagine.
Thanks for the tips and thoughts!

Onno Könemann

Onno. Your hardtop looks to have a very flat profile along the front edge. It doesn't seem to follow the curve of the top of the screen. Was it stored with one corner leaning against a wall or something like that? Mine was and over time it got a bit twisted and when I came to fit it, it wouldn't fit properly. The back left corner was always up a bit. I devised a pair of clamps to fit inside the boot to pull it down as much as possible. If you do this, make sure you spread the load on both the hardtop and rear of the car. I'm sorry I can't show you what I mean, as I sold it to a guy at Midget 50 because I was never satisfied with the fit. Here's a pic of the front of mine to show the curve.

Bernie.

b higginson

Bernie
you are correct I think
And I had the same idea about clamping in the boot area.

I might just make some small slits in the front edge as it is rather stiff and does not folow the screen.
Then stick it back together when clamped on the screen.
Onno Könemann

Here's another, this time of the back to show how the left rear sits up a bit, even with the clamps on.

Bernie.

b higginson

Are you keeping the hardtop on all the time now? You and I agree about the removeable hood being the best one to have, even though they are more difficult to erect than the later ones, because of the lovely lines of the Mk2. Just think, you will never see that nice rear deck again. You'll have to come and look at mine at "MidgetMk2 50" LOL.

Bernie.
b higginson

Nop the Ashley wil be a winter addition.
Would not want a convertible and only drive closed ;)
Just want to be a bit warmer and have a proper rear window (might even fit a heating panel to it)

Onno Könemann

If you think about it, if it's been used before ( which no doubt it has) then it must have fitted better than your initial photo, so storage creep sounds feasible. Fibreglass does have a memory, (hopefully of the shape which fits!) so a bit of persuasion from pushing should work. Using a heat gun certainly aids this process.
Paul Walbran

Don't cut it!

Whatever stresses are locked in there will likely cause things to go out of line in ways you cannot imagine - or fix. Stopped cuts in particular will result in "puckers" at the end of the cut. I've encountered this many times in various materials, and you do not want to get into it.

While it is not a thermoplastic, it does flow over time, more quickly with gentle heat. This amounts to a stress relief to whatever shape it is held in, and is what caused the distortion to begin with. Once it is fastened down, put a small electric heater in the car and blankets on top for insulation, or even just park it in the sun. Don't get it too hot, and be patient. 100C is probably about max temp. This is certainly a days to weeks++ deal.

If, after it has been in position for a few months, you still need help, figure out how to shim things to overbend it and let it sit some more. Like progressively thicker shims over the screen, until when released it sits correctly without being forced. For storage, devise a method of support that does not involve asymmetric loading, or you start over. If necessary, you could build a jig that lets you distort it contrary to the present distortion, but I think you are past that need now that it is fastened on the car. It is possible that fitting the glass could alter what is needed, in either good or bad ways.

FRM
FR Millmore

Yes, basic fact of engineering no. 454782964 whatever the material, if you heat it up, it will get softer!

Fibreglass (GRP - Glass Reinforced Plastic as it is technically known ooo... get me!) as you probably know is glass fibres and (genreally I think...) epoxy resin. Epoxy is thermo setting so you cant 're-melt' it as mentioned. However, you can heat it up to about 100 degrees as FR says. After this you will bugger it. See attached graph for a typical epoxy 'strength vs temperature' chart. A bit of heat effects things a lot, at 50 degrees its half the strength at room temperature.

I always like to bring a bit of science to the party! I hope I haven't lowered the tone! ha ha.

Good luck!
Malcolm

Note/disclaimer: This is just a general epoxy, probably not the one used in your hard top!

M Le Chevalier

Production normal auto body parts, boats, etc., are usually polyester resin; epoxy is only used for high strength/high price/lightweight stuff, like race cars and aircraft.

FRM
FR Millmore

The resin medium is, as FRM says, Polyester, NOT Epoxy!

100C is WAY, WAY, WAY, too hot! I wouldn't go above about 65-75C.

The trick with GRP is to bend it SLOWLY else you will:

1. Break the glass strands.

2. Cause crazing/cracking (and if you do this you can't just 'chase' out the crack and fill it - you will need to grind the mat back and layer in new mat and then tissue to make good).

3. Ultimately cause delamination.


The trick with bending GRP into place is to do it in SMALL increments. Ie bend it, clamp it, hold it (and on ad infinitum).


<<<<<<<<Driver, Racer, and repairer of GRP cars.
Deborah Evans

"100C is WAY, WAY, WAY, too hot! I wouldn't go above about 65-75C."
It is true that my 100C was a guess, but cars parked in the sun exceed 75C, and engine covers over 100C, so I doubt this is "WAY, WAY, WAY, too hot". Still, I favor Deb's caution - if you over heat it it is toast. Better more patience and less heat.

FRM
FR Millmore

Ok, i wasn't entirely sure about the epoxy bit, now you say polyester that deffo rings a bell as being correct. Principal remains the same however for all adhesives.

Quiz me about aluminium alloys, thats where I can really bore you to death! ha ha

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

Onno,

Now you have forced the hardtop to fit, do you want to check you still have four wheels on the ground?

Jonathan
Jonathan Severn

JS- funny!

I recall a friend (top-body man!) using a hair-drier to relax mis-shapen fg panels stretched to correct profile some 25 years ago.

I don't recall how he obtained the hair-drier... probably his wife's.

A
Anthony Cutler

"I don't recall how he obtained the hair-drier... probably his wife's."

Ant, I know it wasnt yours although I dont know how you looked 25 years ago, 1986... baggy trousers and blockhead or MiamiVice suit and Don Johnson hair or Phil Collins "in the air tonight" lookalike?
LOL!!!


LOL Jonathan, typical spridget humour! :)

Arie de Best

Bernie,
A bit off topic but what wheels and tyres are you running? They look great. I think I saw your car at Midget 50 but obviously didn't look close enough!
Matt1275Bucks

Hi Matt. The wheels in the picture are 5.1/2"x13 Dunlop 60 spoke wheels. The tyres are beleive it or not, Goodyear G800s 175/80x 13 circa 1970. They had been in storage since 1971 when I hit a lamp post. So when I restored the car in 2007 I put them back on as I could still stick a finger nail into the tread and they still felt pliable. I had a problem with contact with the front arches, so I bit the bullet and bought 4 Uniroyal Rain Experts at 175/70x13 and besides curing the contact problem, they completely transformed the ride and handling of the car. What I hadn't realised was the walls of the G800s had gone hard, so every pothole felt like the suspension was Knackered and I think they were getting ready to kill me anyway. Silly really, but they looked so nice.
I love the Rain Experts and they still fill the arches nicely.

Bernie.
b higginson

Thanks Bernie. I think its the 51/2" wires that do it for me but the tread pattern on your goodyears was so period I thought they couldn't be newish!
Matt1275Bucks

Sure it can just buy some vredestein sprint classics.
Clasic pattern modern compound.
Onno Könemann

This thread was discussed between 16/08/2011 and 18/08/2011

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