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MG Midget and Sprite General - A very quick MG Midget racecar...


I've been thinking you guys might enjoy this detailed article about one of North America's quickest MG vintage racecars.

Link: http://www.britishracecar.com/HarryGentry-MG-Midget.htm

Curtis Jacobson

very nice!

i like the jacking point adaptor!

didn't like what the steering rack was bolted to! (I'm sure its ok but looks wrong!
Dan Cusworth

Its the cut and shut brake pedal that would concern me on a race car...
James Bilsland

Wow! The hoses and couplings probably cost more than my whole car did to build!

Danny, if you look at the photo captioned "Many racers go without a charging system..." you'll see some vertical struts under the cut down steering rack cross member, if that's what you mean? It does seem a bit odd making the rack a stressed member!

Max max-at-midgetmax-dot-com


For me, the most impressive item was the composite leg rest - a bit of old timber. Ha Ha.

I bet it is interesting to drive.
Gavin Rowles

It looks very well engineered and I've no doubt it is quick, but you can't help but feel with a lot of US Spridget racecars that the owner has opened a Demon Tweeks (insert US version of shiny racing parts supplier) catalogue and said 'Here's my credit card, I'll have one of everything in there please'...

I can't imagine why he breaks one uprated halfshaft a season - I haven't broken one racing yet... Done a few gearboxes mind (wish I had his dogbox :-)
James Bilsland

James,

I would question the half shaft design as it has broken at the outer end which is usually associated with fatigue and bending loads due to wide tyres, not helped by the splines at the outer end. IIRC Peter May and others use a taper at that point like the old Standard axles used by Triumph and others.
David Billington

So he can carry a passenger then can he.... not sure the roll cage would do anything for the passenger and I bet it wouldn't pass muster in the UK either.

The head in the rocker shot is different to the one in the HT leads shot. Not seen one like that before either!

Want a dog box James? :-)
Andrew McGee

Too much money.............
Rob Flint

Nice car and write up but I hate the dash with all those modern gauges - looks like something from 'Max Power'.
John Payne

A dog engagement gearbox Andy? - oh gosh, yes I'd love one - sadly I know no-one who will swap one for a tube of Smarties which is the sum total of my racing 'budget' for next season... :-D
James B

One of the heads is a later A+ type (I think) - the other is a US spec emissions type head, you don't see them in the UK much

J
James B

The problem I have with most US "historic" racers is that they don't look historic!

The hoses and fittings
The "windshield"
The gauges

They look to new.
But then you do need a 2nd seat??
I just don't get that
Onno K

I guess I might as well chip in with my candid and probably unpopular comments. I do like all the braided hoses and fittings and if you need to pull the engine or anything else you can cap and plug every line or fitting to prevent zero loss of fluid.

I like the jacking adaptor - anyone going to make a batch for sale?

I'm not keen on the roll cage design at all - the angle of the front tubes look to be such that they'd fold flat if impacted hard. In fact the cage doesn't look to be tall enough to clear the drivers head and it needs to be.

I hate the gauges too and in fact I hate all autometer gauges. Besides preferring Stack if he'd used stack gauges he could have had gauge backlighting for warning lights. In fact the dash and gauges are what I hate most about this car.

I'd be interested to see if the driver can throw the circuit breaker while strapped in, it looks to be too far to the right of the driver.

One of the heads is the USA spec smog head unless I'm mistaken - the one DV says not to bother with.

I'm guessing the brake and clutch fluid reservoirs aren't isolated from the drivers cockpit and certainly the slaves themselves aren't.

If the driver isn't adjusting the brake bias from wet to dry conditions I suggest he doesn't need the valve, or is running too much front brake/too little rear (I think I've got that the right way round) or just not braking hard enough in the wet.

I'd have thought he'd use silicone coolant hoses but then I would say that wouldn't I? Anyone for an orange set for a downflow rad car?

I don't like the alternator bracket - I'd have thought he could have made something neater and lighter based on an actual alternator bracket.

There's a lot of thermal barrier covering on the fuel pipes which while a good idea isn't as good an idea as putting some vents in the side of the wings.

I'm not sure the Halon fire extinguisher nozzle is in the best place and I think two small nozzles further into the engine bay might be more effective.

There's a lot of horrid looking fabrication around the back axle which may or may not be for the Panhard rod although it appears the tyres are still rubbing on the inner arch at the rear.

I suppose all that sounds somewhat cruel but if taken as constructive criticism it might be useful?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve


As I understand it, starting at least in the early 1960s, braided aircraft-style plumbing has been far more common on U.S. cars (and for example old Indy cars) than on U.K. cars (and for example old Grand Prix cars) because that style of plumbing was readily available through surplus military aviation supply houses here. Open any old hot-rod magazine and you'll see those shiny fittings on our hot-rods from the 60s and 70s era too.

The article actually explains in detail why this car has a passenger seat... but I'll elaborate. In the eastern U.S., the closest event we have to your Goodwood festival is our annual Watkins Glen Vintage Grand Prix. On Friday the grand old racetrack goes quiet, and action moves down into the village on the lake. Racecars drive a couple laps around the old road and street circuit, passing right through town twice (or three times?) - but it's basically a parade. For that spectacle alone, it's really fun to have a passenger seat!

I was looking over the U.K. "Midget Challenge" rules this morning. Seems you guys are allowed to run fiberglass fenders in any of the three classes, eh? Wow! That would never fly here - our "vintage" MGs have to have steel wings. Also, I notice a lot of Midgets on your side of the pond running hardtops. Crazy! The cultural and rule differences are fascinating.

Curtis Jacobson

Hardtops... cos it rains a lot whilst we are racing and we still run races when it's wet!

(Says me who went to watch the Daytona 500 on one of the few occasions it actually rained and was delayed mid race for several hours!!!).

Andrew
Andrew McGee

Touche' Curtis. I think, that like you, I detected a little bit of sour grapes amongst some of the above posters, and the guy did win in the wet didn't he? So the car can't be that bad. It looks OK to me, and what is it they say? If it looks right, it probably is right?

Bernie.
b higginson

Curtis

Thanks for the braided info I did not know that.

I was thinking more in the lines of FIA appendix k ( was pre 65 k?) cars.
Who need to be all metal and have classic lines.
In general very resrictive rules (some say to) but superb cars and great racing with a lot of 4 wheel drifting due to the mandatory dunlop racing tyre's
A representation of the big old international races

Midget challenge is more a real representation of how they have always been raced at a club level.
Showing a wonderfull diversity between bog std and ultimate modifications.

Still think the chair is strange.
You can sit on a race cars floor just as good (personal experiance) ;)
Onno K

Curtis, the fenders may be steel but they're mis-matched with a rubber-bumper valance under the radiator grille. And are they steel? The sidelights look like uncut fibre.

Daniel, I thought that's how the MSA liked its roll cages now, no bend halfway down the front leg.
Max max-at-midgetmax-dot-com

Different technical rules lead to a different focus - In the UK the Midget Challenge rules evolved out of the old 60s/70s Modsport regulations. One of the basic tenets of Modsports was the silhouette rule which said that looked at from the side the car had to appear 'standard' above the wheel centres in silhouette (apart from boot spoilers) - this lead to windscreens being mandatory items on racing Spridgets - if you have to run a windscreen then you need to run a hardtop because aerodynamically it doesn't work if you don't.

Of course when the Class A Midget Challenge rules evolved they allowed the drivers to remove the screen hence running open in that class. Class B and C cars have to run a screen.

Midget Challenge cars can run much lighter than the US spec cars (which means on a US car there is no real weight penalty in running all the shiny stuff) and the fibreglass (fiberglass :-)) wings (fenders) are down to cost and weight saving on the A's and B's. fibreglass panels are much cheaper and easier to repair in a club level series.

In App K races as Onno says the cars have to be all steel - I believe the HSCC regs require all steel cars too - both those regulations are very restrictive and prevent Spridgets being competitive against class opposition.

I run braided hoses on my car - stronger and safer than rubber alone - Actually I'm surprised this car runs plain rubber fuel lines as I'd be happier with armoured hoses there too.

Finally there is no 'sour grapes' here - frankly I would rather have my own car - its much lighter, has more power and better brakes (due to the regulations it races under) That said I appreciate a well built racing Spridget, although I still wouldn't drive it with that brake pedal (think steering column, Imola 1994 and Ayrton Senna for why)

James Bilsland
James B

...and Onno, the quicker drivers are 4 wheel drifting on slicks too - you may not be able to see it quite so clearly because we're going so much faster than the AppK cars... In fact usually if you can see it easily, its a slide not a drift (and there is a difference)
James B

A word about the common use of braided hose over here. Not only is maintenance easier as Daniel said, but the safety and reliability of those lines and connections is much improved as well. I've heard from some racers that they feel that using the braided hose makes a good impression on the tech inspectors as to your engineering and safety and might incline them to let you slide on some other minor non safety bit. There is an entire market here in the US for used racing equipment and surplus equipment from the professional racing divisions such as NASCAR which makes such use of braided lines much more affordable for many racers as well.
B Young

James
Did not know that.
I gues in the end the actual speed cars are racing at does not matter as long as they are equaly matched it gives nice racing.
And the FIA cars go at a speed my eyes can keep up with ;)
Onno K

I wonder if he put on those mis-matched fiberglass fenders as an inside joke? I can't think of any other reason for it (as, fiberglass parts should be equally available in either shape!).


A big "x2" on the vote in favor of his very clever jacking point. Looks like a clever solution to a "too low" ride height for retaining easy floor jack access.



Norm

Norm Kerr

Guys, NEITHER of Harry's front fenders are fiberglass. I double checked.

Sportscar Vintage Racing Association rules require all Spridget bodywork be the same material as original fitted. Rules vary widely from club to club, but generally in North America vintage racers must use steel fenders on Spridgets. (SCCA racers use fiberglass, of course.)

HSR for example would allow Harry to use a fiberglass bonnet and deck lid, but Harry mainly races with SVRA so his bonnet and deck lid are metal too.

SVRA's rules for Spridgets can be reviewed here:
http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/weblinks/EJEN-5ZKQW4?OpenDocument
(scroll down to BMC and click on the words "Austin Healey Sprite / MG Midget" to open the PDF file.)
Curtis Jacobson

This thread was discussed between 08/12/2011 and 10/12/2011

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