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MG Midget and Sprite General - 66 Sprite or 70 Midget?

Hello,

I'm looking into buying a Spridget.

The two I'm looking at right now are rougly the same price.

One is a 1970 Midget with 25000 miles.

-It is unrestored but is a good 20 footer.
-Windshield is split down the middle (and poorly glued)
-Seats are cracked along the edges
-Extra buttons have been drilled in the instrument panel

The 2nd is a 1966 Sprite with 60000 miles

-The body and paint have been redone 15 years ago
-The interior has been redone 10 years ago

Both have the original un-opened drivetrain, although I expect the 66 Sprite to have been better kept up in recent years.

I'm leaning towards the Sprite, as it looks much nicer, but I'm wondering if the lower mileage in the Midget is worth the extra work.

A Fortier

IMO go for the Sprite (but a pity about the radio aerial)
David Smith

If you can't decide, get both.
Tim Michnay

HI Alex - glad you found the BBS ;-)

I would go for the Sprite; the body work is the hardest thing to do (or at least it is for me!) The mechanical are easy once you have a Haynes manual.

It sounds like the midget needs too much work to get it into a decent shape; the difference in miles really doesnt mean much...

Go for it!
Toby Anscombe

go for the sprite despite of the aerial

the milage says nothing as sort of use and maintanance is more important and imposible to check.

also the sprite has the early detachable hood wich looks better when up and down!

Onno Könemann

The Sprite every time. Onno.I'm glad some one agrees with me about the hood. Nice clean rear deck like the mk2 but with wind up windows.
Go for it Alex, you'll be in love before you know it.

Bernie.
b higginson

The Sprite looks and sounds the better car - and hopefully it has been driven, not just sat there with the engine shutting down, like the Midget probably has ...!

Of course, if I end up moving, I could always sell Primrose and buy the Midget myself - then again - ro-ro would be preferable to that!!!!

Enjoy whichever one you get - and drive it - lots and lots :)
rachmacb

Thanks guys!

I have only been to see the Midget so far, and I will be off to see the Sprite this coming Wednesday (it's a 2hr drive from home and requires a bit of planning). I will keep you informed on how the Sprite's 15 year cosmetic restoration is holding up.

Here are some pics of both insides (taken from the ads).

Also, is that blue-ish tint an original Sprite colour? Incidentally, it is listed as being green.

A Fortier

To poke some around with a pooh-stick: Neither one of them, Get a Round Wheel Arch!
Alex G Matla

Pooh sticks are thrown off bridges so can't be used for stirring!
rachmacb

Ya know, I agree with Alex. Go for RWA ;-)
Hence I have a Bugeye and a 72 Midget (and a 73 and a 74).

I prefer the 1275 and the delicate (in more ways than one) bumpers of the 70 Midget, but the 66 Sprite is such a delightful combination of stowable top, windup windows and rare 1098 (along with a slightly lower kerb weight). If the 66 had had round wheel arches, I would be looking for one. It is my own personal preference, but IMHO the RWA simply looks more like a "sports car" to me. YMMV.
David "RWA; form follows function" Lieb
David Lieb

The Midget IMO has had some respraying done - cills on face lift cars should be black with chrome trim (25000 miles only !). Wheels are also non standard look like 5.5 - not early rostyle.

Sprite does not look original colour, the steering wheel looks like it has a cover on it - so wheel may need replacement.

If you need the hood up a lot the later unit is much easier to erect and better shape (again IMHO)

Most important is checking the underbody condition especially spring hanger boxes etc.

Another vote for RWA.

R.
richard boobier

The Sprite looks close to Riviera Blue, an original colour choice that year. Of course, it is hard to be sure given that we are looking at a monitor's interpretation of the camera's interpretation of the colour of the car.
David "I rather like Riviera Blue" Lieb
David Lieb

I would go for the Sprite. Slightly easier to work on, simpler dash, thinner seats, so slightly roomier interior. In this case it looks like the better car too, though neither one looks bad.
Bryan Durham

right off i have to say the midget....the parts to repair arnt all that expensive and are common on ebay.

the 66 sprite May have the smooth case tranny, im not sure...If so Im sure theres a fight looming as to how robost the smooth case tranny is to the rib case tranny...Ill avoid that fight as I have a datsun 5 speed tranny

the A-series 1275 and its parts is fairly common compared to a 1098


Having said that...I would base my decision on the quality of the cars

Have a good long hard look at these areas

Front suspension...the rack, THE SHOCKS, inner and outer tie rods, bushings, kign pins, fulrum pins, wish bone condition, bearings ....the whole shabang, Dont just fluff over lightly, this area can get expensive and fast....good rebuilt Lever shocks will cost around $200 each...If work is needed in this area...DO NOT take it to a modern day car shop....Use only a clasic car repair shop, namely one that work on midgets...the tech is to old, and they wont understand it. and wont be able to source the correct parts...its just bad news, Ive been there, and wont take my midget back to a modern car shop..My 93 toyota truck sure, not an issue

Brakes...Master clyinders, lines, calipers...there not expensive but you will go bald tring to bleed and rebuild

Rust...Its british, so you can see the rust grow just by watching....Look around the floor pans, the sills the rear leaf spring perches, the A post, along the firewall, and the tranny tunnel. (PULL BACK THE CAPET) if they wont let you, keep walking...some rust is expected,,,just not 2 foot long gapping holes

Transmission....how does the tranny sound and perform...it seems these need to be rebuilt every 40 to 60,000 miles

anyway...good luck

Prop


Prop

BTW...Unless the 70 midget is a one owner, (40 years) or they can prove mileage

Im guessing its not 25,000 miles, More likely 125,000 miles....IMHO I dont think lucas ever intended the midget to reach 100,000 miles So didnt install an odometer that would record past 99,999 miles

prop....I push, pull and drag my midget way more then 625 miles a year.
Prop

Actually, the 66 Sprite has the 1275 engine (which, according to the owner, was one of three engine options for 1966). From what I read, this was early goings for the 1275; did they have teething problems I should be weary of?

As for the 4-speed, how do I tell if it's a rib-case or a smooth-case (without removing it, obviously)?

Thanks again.

-Alex
A Fortier

If it has the 1275, then it should also have the folding top (rather then the stowable top). If it is the original engine, it should have come with the good crankshaft (EN40?) and it should be a "thin-flange" block.

"Ribcase" refers to ribs on the outside of the transmission case. Problem is that it is hard to get a good look at the transmission ;-) Might be able to see enough from the engine compartment with a good light. The 1970 definitely came with a ribcase (might have been changed by now, however), so a comparison should tell the tale.
David "either one is better than no Spridget" Lieb
David Lieb

Thanks David.

The owner claims the engine and tranny are original, that said engine is a 1275, and that the top is, in fact, the removable, stowable top. Is this impossible, or simply unlikely? Could there have been any "transitory" cars from MKIII to MKIV?
A Fortier

Prop - the ONLY way your midget goes anywhere NEAR that far is by pulling and pushing it under your steam ;)!

If I was you, and you're going to see them both - try both and drive them and see which you enjoy most :)
rachmacb

my '66 1098 (originally before a DPO fitted a 950!) came with a "rib case" box

You should have one in that car

To clarify (or not)

The 1275 engine was fitted to LATE '66 cars (Sprite and Midget) and was also fitted with the folding hood/top

The early '66 cars had a nice 1098 engine and stowaway (demountable) tops

Changeover time has been quoted as October-time 1966, but some early cars had issues (it says in a book*) and 1275s didn't get underway for delivery until Feb '67 so there "could" have been three engine types around. A good 1098, a "dodgyish" 1275 and the later good 1275

*Original Sprite And Midget by Terry Horler based on factory records

A very useful book to have if you have a Spridget

And I hope you do soon have one, whichever choice you make

As a Midget owner may I say

I like the Sprite
bill sdgpm

bill is correct

if it has a detachble hood
it should have a ribcase and a 1098

the 1098 is a fantastic engine with plenty of torque due to the long stroke.
it realy is not that much slower than a 1275.
and parts are just as easy to get as the 1275 ones

if it has a 1275 it is not a bad thing
externaly the look almost exactly the same.
so there is no hack and slash work done to make it fit
check the engine nuber (starting with 12 is a 1275)to know for sure

if the owner says that you ever had engine options in the spridgets he is misinformed.
each model had its own engine, mostly variants of the (fantastic)A-series engine but the later rubber bumpers had the triumph 4 pot

Onno Könemann

Alex,
Not even Saint Horler knows ALL of the combinations that occurred. It COULD happen, but that does not mean it did.

1275 engines are easy to ID, as they are the only A-Series in Spridgets that do NOT have tappet covers on the side under the manifolds. No way of being sure what came in the car other than getting a Heritage Certificate, which is a little more time and money than normal people would do for a car they have not yet purchased.

Stowable tops are not something you can "fake" on a Spridget. Unlike the MGB, which would accept the earlier stowable top on any of the later cars, the rear edge of the cockpit is significantly different on a Spridget (darn it! I would love to put a stowable top on my 72).
David "take two, they're small" Lieb
David Lieb

Alright, well, here's the deal with the Sprite:

If the Midget was a 20 footer, the Sprite is a 10 footer. The paint is decent, but is showing its 15 year old age. It has a few scuffs ansd chips (such as along the bonnet). The panel fit is decent, except for one door and the bonnet.

The owner seems much more knowledgeable than the owners of the Midget and he has lots of documentation. He has also fitted a fuel regulator to the fuel line (something about the generator at idle taxing the battery).

He also claims (and earnestly believes) that this is one of three imported MKIIIs specially ordered with 1275cc engines. All I know are the numbers:

Body HAN8L 57xxx
Motor 12CEDaH 20xx

Worst part about the antenna is that it's not even functionnal: it doesn't have a radio!

Here are a few images.

A Fortier

A few more photos, which might require explanation.

In order:

-driver side floor board
-transmission (if anyone can help as to whether it's a smooth case or ribbed case with this picture, I'd be grateful)
-pedal box
-bulkhead suspension mounts



A Fortier

Everything seems tidy enough with the Sprite; I think I'll go for this one.

Any objections?
A Fortier

what is wrong with the door fit?
anny pictures?
remember these are unaboddy's and the door fit is the first sign of rot or a bad repair!
Onno Könemann

When the passenger-side door closes, there's a 1/4 inch recess. There's no real gap and the door closes fine, but it's closed too far in.

You can't see very well on the enclosed pic, but it'll give an idea.

A Fortier

Probably be able to adjust that by moving the latching plate and locking the screws nicely tightly!

Big pozidriv type headed screws, they can loosen off a little and cause such movement

The door seal rubber is often all the buffering the doors get and thay can get compressed by the door shutting against them

Rather like you, if I was choosing I'd go for the Sprite

bill sdgpm

Is the door seal rubber in place? Id defintly look at the door hinges,,, give the door a good shaake and see if there is any flex in the hinge at the A post. if so, Id look a little closer for cancer...But I agree it probably just needs some adjustment

Not that im an expert...But did the 66 come with exteriour door latches...I was thinking that was later on

Also, Is this a relocated sprite...not built for USA spec. I was thrown by the front bonnet(hood) hinges, I thought all USA spec cars where sissor hinges....BTW good luck with those hinges I hear there a real pain to deal with.
Prop

My offer has been accepted on the Sprite, conditional on the car running after its spring tune-up in a few weeks.

I'll keep you guys posted when I get the beast.
A Fortier

nice
and don't forget to get a heritage certificate
from BMH
that is the way of finding out wether that 1275 is original.
and i know i am curious!
Onno Könemann

This thread was discussed between 21/03/2010 and 26/03/2010

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